[MD] The SOM/MOQ discrepancy.

[Platt Holden]

Hi Marsha, 

More follow up. See below

> At 01:25 PM 12/12/2008, you wrote:
> >Hi Marsha,
> >
> > > At 10:37 AM 12/12/2008, you wrote:
> > >
> > > >[Ron]
> > > > > I would say that a "true" MoQ teacher does not "teach" but
> provides
> > > the
> > > > > climet and the atmosphere
> > > > > for the individual to realize itself.
> > > >
> > > >Yes -- another reason for thinking of the intellectual level as the
> > > >"individual" level, the current high point of moral evolution,
> laying
> > > the
> > > >groundwork for the advance to the next level of art.
> > >
> > > Greetings Platt,
> > >
> > > How would this quote fit into your intellectual-level-as-individual
> > > point-of-view?
> > >
> > > "While sustaining biological and social patterns
> > > Kill all intellectual patterns.
> > > Kill them completely
> > > And then follow Dynamic Quality
> > > And morality will be served."
> > >      (LILA, Chapter 32)
> >
> >This reflects what Pirsig said near the beginning of LIla -- that writing
> a
> >metaphysics is a degenerate activity. But he went on to say that not
> >writing a metaphysics was just as degenerate as writing one. "Purity,
> >identified, ceases to be purity." So while we acknowledge a mystic
> reality
> >of no intellectual patterns and thus no levels (as in the passage you
> >quote) we have to "settle for being something less pure." My individual
> >level point-of-view, like the MOQ itself, is being less pure.
> 
> Platt,
> 
> What about Annotation 29 in LILA's Child?  Seems to me RMP is stating 
> that the "sefl" does not exist independent of the patterns of all four
> levels.
> 
> "29. The MOQ, as I understand it, denies any existence of a
> "self" that is independent of inorganic, biological, social or
> intellectual patterns. There is no "self" that contains these
> patterns. These patterns contain the self. This denial agrees
> with both religious mysticism and scientific knowledge. In
> Zen, there is reference to "big self" and "small self." Small
> self is the patterns. Big self is Dynamic Quality."
>      (LILA's Child)

Agree. Individuals consist of the four levels and the individual level, 
like other levels, is dependent on levels below it.

Pirsig refers to the human individual many times in Lila, most notably in 
his long story about the brujo and, of course, Lila herself.

"Scientific knowledge" above probably refers to dedicated materialists who 
believe the notion of "I" or self is a handy hallucination created by 
neurons firing in the brain. "Religious mysticism" probably refers to seers 
who believe the "small self" is a chip off the big block of Buddha, or in 
the Christian religion, a child of God.

That the individual holds a high place in the Pirsig's philosophy is 
evidenced by his writing in ZAMM: "My personal feeling is this is how 
further improvement in the world will be done: by individuals making 
Quality decisions, and that's all." 

What do you think?

Platt