[MD] The SOM/MOQ discrepancy.

[Platt Holden]

> Platt:
> My individual level point-of-view, like the MOQ itself, is being less
> pure.
> 
> Marsha:
> "29. The MOQ, as I understand it, denies any existence of a
> "self" that is independent of inorganic, biological, social or
> intellectual patterns. There is no "self" that contains these
> patterns. These patterns contain the self. This denial agrees
> with both religious mysticism and scientific knowledge. In
> Zen, there is reference to "big self" and "small self." Small
> self is the patterns. Big self is Dynamic Quality."
>     (LILA's Child)
> 
> Andre:
> The Intellectual level is not individual. The Intellectual level should
> reflect/ and be aware, of all.

Aren't you personifying the intellectual level as an individual who is 
"aware?"
I don't see how a abstract level can be aware. Bessie the cow is aware, but 
not property.     

> I have tried in my previous posts to make this clear in terms of the
> intellectual level being ( as Bodvar argues) the S/O distinction. In the
> spirit of Pirsig's  MoQ it is not. Ham has difficulties with this, SOL
> maintains this but I am getting used to the idea that Pirsig did not
> intend
> this.

Can you cite a passage or two from Pirsig as evidence for your view of his 
intent?

> There is a huge difference between the law and the spirit of the
> law.

The "spirit of the law" is open to wide interpretation, depending on 
individual views. 

> Pirsig has presented us with an assumption! (dare I say it: a
> spirit underlying creation)! i.e Quality is reality (Lila p69)...we ( as
> MoQ'ers on this Discuss) adhere to this and we believe in this
> because reality makes much more sense to interpret it in the MoQ way than
> it
> does the SOM way...but it remains an assumption.

Agree. All thought originates from assumptions, usually unrecognized.

> It is the same as a political party representing you. It cannot be
> done...hence the crisis in democracy at present. Hence :conflict!

Democracy and political parties are social level values. 

> The 'true' (representation) can only be represented
> mystically...something
> 'the West' knows very little of.

I'm sure you detect the self-contradiction in your statement about what is 
"true."

Platt