[MD] The SOM/MOQ discrepancy.

[Ham Priday]

Andre --


> There have been places I have worked (welfare, education,
> youth employment programs etc) where such behaviours as I
> describe tends to label one 'unreliable', 'flippant', 'non-sensible',
> 'illogical and generally 'unstable'.

But you still have the choice to believe what you want.  No one has the 
authority to force others to think their way.  What I didn't understand is 
why you were not free to "contradict yourself" prior to reading Pirsig. 
He's not exactly what I would call a proponent of individual freedom.

[Ham, previously]:
> I'll admit I'm curious to know how you can call me a socialist,
> considering that I'm usually characterized here, along with Platt,
> as a right-wing conservative! ...Is it your way of getting back
> at me for calling you an 'objectivist'?

[Andre]:
> You appear to have taken this as a derogatory remark but
> there is no offence intended Ham. For me a socialist is simply
> a human being with a strong sense of decent human values,
> such as caring and sharing.
> You appear to me to have those characteristics: your posts
> are always thoughtful, considerate, patient, polite etc. I believe
> you have never lost your temper and have never been, at least
> from my point of view, insulting to anyone.
> You share your views, you put them in essay form and make
> them available to everyone and all this for nothing.
> I know plenty of persons who would not do so...they would
> set up their own little consultancy bureau and start charging
> the minute you walk in the door.
> That you cannot be convinced of the MoQ is quite another matter.
> You have every right to do so.

Thanks for the nice words, Andre, but I'm not quite the saint you describe. 
And I do lose my temper, probably too often.  (Just ask my wife!)   That 
idea about setting up a bureau and charging admission has me thinking. 
Hmmmn . . . maybe I should consider it.  It sure beats trying to sell a 
philosophy book!

However, there's far more to being a socialist than having "decent values" 
and caring for one's fellow man.  I don't believe in "sharing the wealth", 
for example.  A person has the right to keep what he earns and not have the 
State controlling his life.  I'm wary of government bureaucrats doling out 
taxpayers' money to failed businesses and bankrupting the nation to appease 
the lobbyists and their political constituents.  That is not their 
constitutional right in a representative democracy.

Every individual bears the responsibility of surviving in this world.  It 
requires an education, learning a trade, moral conduct, and persistent 
effort on his part.  When government handouts and entitlements become a way 
of life, we lose incentive, abandon our traditional values, and foster a 
dependent underclass which penalizes everyone.  I don't know how things are 
in China, but socialism is not what the founders of my country had in mind, 
nor would the U.S. have become a world leader as a welfare state.

> And as for 'getting back' at you. No Ham, I do not hold grudges,
> not to anyone, although I must admit I can be my own worst enemy
> at times... but do not think I am an 'objectivist'.....really.
> And regarding the 'right-wing conservative' bit, I thought you had
> described yourself as such but I can be mistaken not having been
> long on this Discuss.

A conservative never calls himself "right-wing".  But lots of 
self-proclaimed "conservatives" are centrists, globalists, and moral 
liberalists with socialist tendencies.  This nation has shifted dangerously 
to the left over the last half-century.  We shirk personal responsibility 
and look to government to solve all our problems.  We pour millions of 
dollars into our schools while the educational level drops each year.  We 
encourage multiculturalism as an excuse for failing to control our immigrant 
population, which leads to social conflicts and ineffective government 
spending.  Where laws are no longer enforced, freedom falls into disrepute, 
and a nation loses its sovereignty.  Virtually every policy that has been 
labeled "progessive" in my lifetime can be shown to be "regressive" in terms 
of our cultural history.  And the growing acceptance of socialism is one of 
them.

As you can see, I'm not a happy citizen.  But as a recent transplant to 
China, I expect you have some thoughts on governance in the modern world, 
and I would hope that state socialism is not high on your recommendation 
list.

Best regards,
Ham