[MD] A Passionate Woman

[Heather Perella]

Margaret, 

     This was a wonderful post.  I'm wondering... 
There seems to be at least two kinds of feminism that
your speaking about.  The motherly, compassionate one,
and the one that tries or does take advantage of men
with sexual overtones, such as the 'batting with
eye-lashes' to get attention for something
manipulative.  I work with female teenagers, and I can
tell when their trying to 'sooth the beast' so to
speak, and since I'm a program manager that has this
power to give or take away their home visits, they
test me more often than just the day-to-day staff.  I
was a day-to-day staff, and I definitely notice the
difference in how the female residents approach me.  I
do have to confess though, as much as these teenagers
are in trouble and cause trouble, they can be more
real at times with how they will act towards another. 
They don't always try to throw their sexuality
'out-there', well, their probably more cautious about
doing so since they've been in sexually abusive
situations.
    I didn't understand where Ron and you where coming
from in the seemingly attack on Marsha's wanderance
with feminism.  I took it as she was trying to talk
about females and female actions.  As you point out
below, yes, all females aren't the motherly type. 
Some are manipulative, and very good at it.  Sometimes
this manipulation isn't even leveraged by sexuality. 
Any of these traits can be seen in males as well. 
Females that steal for instance.  Females can look
innocent.  They can quietly not show any aggression,
and seem very good.  I'm thinking of one resident
where I work in particular.  She behaves very well,
and it makes you wonder why she's even there.  Yet,
behind the scenes she's very manipulative.  She'll
talk her grandmother and other people out of thinking
she's doing anything bad, and will go out and slyly
steal something.  Her leverage seems to be she is very
good most of the time.  So, one looks at her, spends
time with her, and thinks, oh she's a good person. 
Yet, behind the scenes, she slyly steals, gets other
residents to aggressively go after other residents,
and she's a puppet master pulling strings.  She makes
herself look very good, but she's actually the
ring-leader.  Like a good, decent Italian mafia killer
that spends time with his family and digs holes at
night to put bodies in.


Very good post Margaret.
This was very insight, especially due to all these
real examples that you know about via people that
you've met and discussed first-hand with.

SA

P.S. I wan't able to get the video to come up on
Isabel.  What you wrote here seems to show that
feminism is more about cultivating a compassionate,
loving woman and getting women out of abusive cycles
and those in dire straits.  To strengthen the woman
character in a positive way.  Thanks.   





[Margaret] 
> FINALLY - I got a chance to hear this - I've been
> away on business
> for the past week and a half. 
> 
> What a fantastic speaker and a hot, hot, hot sexy
> woman Isabel
> Allende is!!! It makes me want to run out and get
> some of
> her writings - right away. 
> 
> I am thrilled that you posted this as I am certainly
> going
> to post it around to some of my other circles of
> friends.
> 
> I'm afraid I fall into the category of her daughter
> as far as
> the term 'feminism' goes in my world here in the US.
> 
> 
> I think the term feminist has become horribly
> contorted. 
> It's the opposite side of the pendelum. 
> 
> Often, I find absolutely no 'feminine' energy at all
> inside of most
> 'feminists' I meet - they have anything BUT
> compassion and love
> inside of them. They are often ugly (inside - and
> sometimes outside too),
> man-hating women who think that EVERYTHING wrong
> with 
> the world was done by a man. 
> 
> Well let's don't forget something -
> all men have had MOTHERS somewhere along the way - 
> and here in the land of plenty, I have
> seen plenty of woman be equally if not more so,
> abusive to their
> husbands or men in domestic violence situations. 
> 
> Here is something curious to think about: 
> it is absolutely acceptable in common television
> ads, sitcoms
> and average tv here in the US for women to regularly
> slap,
> pinch, punch in the arm or otherwise 'put down' a
> man verbally
> because he's 'obviously stupid and inadequate' and
> there will be an 
> accompanying 'laugh track' to go with it. 
> 
> Try changing it around the other way and 
> see how many people would get seriously bent
> out of shape about it. 
> 
> I don't watch them enough to know a lot of names of
> programs -
> but you can almost do it with the sound turned down
> - it's alarming
> how perfectly acceptable it is for women to be
> physically violent
> in common domestic situations (and I'm talking
> mostly about sitcoms
> on regular network television - not just dramatic
> movies where the
> main characters are 'supposed' to be like that) -
> I'm talking about
> 'Friends' or the comedies about 'raymond' or
> whatever - I'm not
> good with names. 
> 
> But, as far as all of the things that Ms. Allende
> was saying about
> the need for feminine activism in a global sense, in
> Third world
> countries where women are so horribly abused as she
> was describing -
> yes the need for disassembling the social processes
> that foster
> those environments is obvious and absolutely
> essential. 
> 
> I have met women in this country in strip clubs -
> within the past
> several years who are from Eastern European
> countries who were 
> brought here by 'pimps/"friends"' - men who have
> paid their way out of 
> worse conditions over there to bring them here to
> work in strip 
> clubs - then the girls presumably 'owe' the 'pimp'
> so much money for 
> bringing them here - that they are constantly paying
> him back and 
> can't get out of stripping - then they get into
> drugs and 
> basically are oppressed so much by their
> situation...their 
> self-esteem is already so low, they
> can't figure out how to get out of this cycle of
> abuse and
> dependency. 
> 
> The problem is, I think these are social problems -
> not a sign
> of a lack of 'feminine energy'. There are other
> women who 
> work in the strip clubs who are doing it so they can
> pay for
> their college education - but I don't see them
> 'empowering' their
> fellow 'sister' to get them out of the cycle of
> abuse with their
> pimps. 
> 
> Want to see/hear some interesting ideas about
> women's situations - 
> watch  'Dancing at the Blue Iguana' or a short
> performance art
> clip by Laurie Anderson about picketing in front of
> the 
> Playboy Bunny club. 
> 
> Often times, women themselves continue to 
> choose situations where they whore their own selves
> out -
> for money, cocaine (I know young girls in their 20's
> from
> white, affluent, upper middle class neighborhoods
> who will
> do whatever the boys want just so they can get a
> little attention
> and some coke), for getting their plumbing fixed 
> (I've got perfectly nice female friends who work in
> good 9 - 5 
> jobs who will sell out their sexual charms (or at
> least the smile and the 'idea' of possible sex 
> to get a man (who they aren't necessarily sexually
> attracted
> to) to fix their broken toilet - or porch - or car
> or whatever
> other service they'd rather bat their eyelashes
> for), and then there
> are those who just generally hold out for the
> highest priced bidder 
> who gets to walk down the aisle and buy the whole
> pie
> (as opposed to the slice). 
> 
> Do you think women behave like this because they
> aren't 'empowered'
> and this is their learned 'mechanism' for dealing
> with a society run by
> men? I don't necessarily think so. I know a lot of
> young women who
> have the wealth and education to behave differently
> - but don't.
> 
> Women keep wanting the 'alpha male'. They want the
> best provider 
> and protector (motivated by their biology) -
> unfortunately, 
> in our society today it is often the most insecure,
> abusive men 
> who masquerade the best as alpha males. These are
> like social
> problems to me - not necessarily
> indicating that we are lacking in feminine energy.  
> 
> What exactly IS feminine energy and masculine energy
> anyway?
> I'm open for learning what it is that people really
> mean
> by these terms?
> 
> I get the feeling that some women (and men for that
> matter)
> equivocate the feminine/matriarchal with all things
> that are good -
> and the masculine/patriachal with all things that
> are bad..
> 
> So I'm curious...what is meant by feminine
> energy/male energy?
> 
> What do you all think? 
> 
> Anyway, thanks for the forum for the rant - maybe SA
> is right
> about me being the one with some kind of issues
> about this
> since I react so 'passionately' about these
> ideas...something
> to think about. 
> 
> But mostly - with posting this video, I'm very glad
> for Marsha 
> that we now know that there are a few men out here
> on this group 
> who have indicated with a few posts about women and
> feminism 
=== message truncated ===


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ