[MD] The Advancement of MOQ

[skutvik at online.no]

Hi Chris

On 28 Jan. you wrote:

Bo earlier:
> >If you mean the MOQ flirting with mysticism (Buddhism) In my
> >opinion: No!! There are too many on this discussion that yelps
> >about Dynamic Quality as if some panacea, not having
> >understood the first thing of the MOQ. It (the MOQ) is greater
> >than anything in the sense of bridging the East-West
> >(mysticism/rationality) gap

Chris:
> I fully agree with this, and frankly I don't understand why people
> would hold to a "mystification" of the MOQ. It is not necessary, and
> all it would do would be to change it into a (worse?) form of
> mysticism that has already been around for over a thousand years. Zen
> is all good and well, but it is not the MOQ. There the mystics have it
> right, if you try to define Zen it will elude you, and you will have
> missed the point, the MOQ however is a tool for our analytic minds.
> Perhaps "analytic minds" is not the best choice of words, but I trust
> you know what I am getting at.

Great, but this has consequences, first of all that the DQ/SQ 
divide is the Quality, not as so many of our "mystics" want it, 
namely that the MOQ is a mere theory about Quality. An entity  
that - theoretically - can be split in any arbitrary way - even the 
S/O one - without "trouble". IMO this is deeply wrong, among 
other things because a "Quality SOM" is just as bad as the 
ordinary SOM. Well enough for now.   

> So, It should definitely not be more associated with any mystic
> elements, but my question was rather: Should we proceed as didf 
> Voltaire? To fight ferociously and perhaps a bit single minded for our
> cause - sometimes there is Value in such a struggle, but I do not know
> about this. ...snip

Voltaire was an SOM (intellectual) fanatic. We have concentrated 
much on Descartes as the philosophical pioneer, but Voltaire 
surely was the political one and the French Revolution the turning 
point in intellect's struggle with society  ... in Europe. Pirsig sees 
the end of WW1 (President Wilson) as intellect assuming the top 
political job in the US - Americans notoriously believes they are 
the hub of the world you know :-)  . 

Now, should the MOQ proceed as did intellect? A most intriguing 
question. You mention Voltaire I guess because you see him as 
the inspirator of the French Revolution and the post-revolutionary 
terror. Yes, that's right, but it was an avalanche that nothing could 
stop and it resulted in a better world. I guess this is what goes on 
to-day, Intellect has completed is mission in the West, but 
presses relentlessly on into the social feudal Middle East. I'm 
sure that most people in the remote valleys of Afghanistan regard 
their existence as good, they "don't need no education", and hate 
the intruding modernity, yet the avalanche can't stop.

OK I got side-tracked. You went on
  
> Mabye it would destroy more that it gains, and perhaps the MOQ is not
> suited for such a struggle - maybe this was the way of the old
> intelectual level to establish itself, and maybe (If indeed the MOQ is
> the next level) this way of establishing supremacy is not suited for
> the MOQ. 

It looks like you understand, but I must repeat: Everyone around 
this site regard SOM as a villain that has corrupted an innocent 
but dynamic intellect. In other words, they see it as a mental cup 
that can contain all kinds of "ideas" - SOM one idea, the MOQ 
another - much like mind. But this is untenable, intellect is the 
S/O distinction and it's a  huge value, consequently it's no evil 
that the  the MOQ can push out of sight. The MOQ itself is no 
intellectual pattern, it's "out of intellect" but no longer part of it, 
rather the very "system" that has intellect as its highest static 
good. S/O Metaphysics is bad but the S/O distinction is good.

The "mystic MOQ" (with a "dynamic intellect) that most people 
believe is the true MOQ (that must be protected against this 
"revisionist") is in fact SOM's tentacles refusing to let go. The 
mystic MOQ is just a more subtle SOM, Quality the objective 
entity that the MOQ is just a theory about. This is the sad state, 
the MOQ is not ready to enter any struggle for supremacy against 
SOM because SOM is still in place. I have tried to re-enact the 
role of MOQ's  "Voltaire", but ...it ain't easy.  

> Oh, and by the way, Karl XII fought at Poltava - besserwisser note =D

Right, I should have checked, it was at Lützen.

MVH

Bo