[MD] The Empire and other deliberations

[Joseph Maurer]

On Friday 03 October 2008 4:57 AM Andre writes to all:

<snip>

Whether you are aware or not does not make one iota of a         difference,
it's the people that experience and do something  with that experience that
makes a difference and creates a legacy and nothing else.
 
<snip>

And if we now get arguments/proper interpretations about what
"feeling/experience" really is, or what it means to be "aware", or where
one's "ontological basis" really floats on or what the difference is between
"perception" and "awareness" then I do not understand what and why Pirsig
has tried to give us this MoQ.
 
Hi Andre and All,

InMyOpinion Persig¹s description of evolution from a social level to an
intellectual level has not been explained in terms of DQ/SQ or
Defined/Undefined metaphysics.  The social level is not described by
barriers or borders!  The Social level is an evolution from life to
Consciousness or self-awareness.  There is a difference between Awareness
and Conceptualization.  Putting something into words at the intellectual
level is not the same thing as being aware. If I use the analogy
Conscious/Mechanical for DQ/SQ then I would say that the Social level is
Conscious and the Intellectual level is Conscious/Mechanical, SOL.  If I
seek a time when evolution occurred from a social experience to a level of
law, I would suggest the movement from slavery to the Ten Commandments.

IMO In the rest of your post you are describing mechanical behavior, like a
herd of cattle, to give examples of the difficulties you see.  When you
describe a difference you can be aware of a difference between conscious and
mechanical expression, or mechanically follow the crowd.  I agree totally
that 99% of what I do is based on unconscious motivation, what I learned at
my mother¹s knee, and from the glasses that culture hands me and therefore
totally mechanical.  My conceptualized behavior follows the crowd.  I can
wish to increase my awareness of myself only if I can accept that
conceptualization is more than awareness.  I can¹t talk myself into a better
place, just more money!  Experience based on the conceptualized awareness of
a metaphysics of quality has more value than a metaphysics proposing the
body/soul division of Aristotle.  I am responsible when I am aware of what I
am doing, otherwise I can act like a machine. As a machine, I am not aware.
On a lighter note, maybe my devil puts a blindfold over my eyes.

 

Joe



On 10/3/08 4:57 AM, "Andre Broersen" <andrebroersen at gmail.com> wrote:

> And if we now get arguments/ proper interpretations about what "feeling/
> experience" really is, or what it means to be "aware", or where one's
> "ontological basis" really floats on or what the difference is between
> "perception" and "awareness" then I do not understand what and why Pirsig
> has tried to give us this MoQ.