[MD] A Balanced MOQ Society

[skutvik at online.no]

Hello Christoffer

3 Oct.  Ivarsson wrote:

> I have a small problem with the sense of democracy being a goal in
> itself. I do not believe that just because a society is a democracy it
> is Q-intellect driven, nor do I think democracy is necessary for this.

You may be right if democracy is taken in its basic "people's rule" 
meaning. When the Algerians voted pro islamic, the Gaza Palestinians 
voted Hamas and the Iranians chose the priest rule it was 
"dispensable democracy". But it includes the whole paraphernalia of 
phenomena that Pirsig deems intellectual patterns: Human rights and 
worth, freedom of press, speech, assembly, travel, trial by jury (LILA p 
313) the parliamentary system with its the three-pronged distribution of 
power: the law giving institution, the judicial system and government. 
All to prevent democracy being "democratically" abolished ...or to 
prevent intellectual value succumbing to social value, like it happened 
in Germany in the thirties.      

> Democracy is a social pattern, come into being I think by crafting of
> the intellectual level, an ideally it should make it easier for
> intellectual value to be identified etc. But we know that is not
> always so, a democracy is only Q-intellect driven if the majority of
> the people are. If they are not, the form of government doesn't
> matter. For instance, here is the social level at work:

I don't know what to make of this, sounds like you are having a 
"tantrum", just want to be difficult ;-).

> "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and
> to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation under God,
> indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for all."
 
> The only way that becomes something that has anything to do with the
> intellectual level is if the people reciting it actually reflect over
> what the words mean, and I doubt they do that all the time, thus
> chanting "Liberty" or "Sieg Heil" or "Allah Ackbar" may be just as
> much the social level at work. It all depends.

At times your notion of what the Q-levels are is most trite, that is the 
MOQ seen seen from inside the intellectual level (SOM) where 
"intellect" means "reflecting" or "thinking".  Again, nations are social 
patterns as are their rituals of anthems, flags, monarchs, pledging of 
allegiance oaths ...etc. Even Sweden have those and you would revert 
to that level too if your social base was threatened, but this would be in 
a defense of one that is overlaid by intellectual (democratic) patterns. 
Not the solely social patterned sixteenth century - conquering - would-
be-superpower  Sweden.


IMO

Bo