[MD] Many Avatars, Many Selves OFFLIST

[MarshaV]

Are you okay?




At 08:42 AM 9/18/2008, you wrote:

>[Ron]
>As you just demonstrated, it is a matter of degree and perspective as
>to exactly what constitutes "harm". Ones harm is another's creative
>play. Where's the line? who draws it?
>
>[Arlo]
>Here, in Azeroth, in Norrath, the answer is the same, you do.
>
>[Ron]
>So if I draw the line at false identities who are you to call this
>value an illusion that is not real?
>
>[Arlo]
>You can think what you want, but when you impose on ME a realness
>that does not exist, that is where I step up and call it an illusion.
>If you wanted to think, for example, that my body determines my
>gender, go ahead. But if you tell others "the real Arlo is X" based
>on this, and make the claim that my gender otherwise is pretend or
>false, then I step up, most certainly. In other words, *I* determine
>what is "real" about "me". You can accept it or reject it, but you
>can't tell ME what is "real" and what is "not". But why don't you go
>ahead and tell me what a "false identity" is. What makes one "false"
>and another "real"? You continue to attack my position without
>articulating any alternative.
>
>So do so now, Ron. What is a "real identity"? How do we determine
>what it is? What makes one identity "false" and another "real"? Give
>me something to use to make this determination.
>
>Ron:
>it makes all this shit a matter of opinion so before I bow out of
>ball of garbage...
>MY opinion of a false identity is composing an identity which is not
>based
>on personal experience an identity that has no social context.
>
>[Ron]
>Obviously you have never been raped or abused or you'd see the
>ridiculousness of that statement.
>
>[Arlo continues to talk about something he has not experienced
>like the pompous authority on everything he is]
>No, I've never been raped. But one of my closest friends has been a
>rape counselor for years. And I've had other, intimate, exposures to
>this in my life as well. Rape is a crime against the body. Much of
>the trauma to the self results from conflating this assault with an
>assault on the "self". It is not. Healing begins with that
>recognition. When someone close to me was raped, she was the first to
>say, "my body was raped, but *I* was not". I have seen the ravages on
>others who are unable to disambiguate the act against their body from
>an act against themselves. If the "self" is destroyed in this act,
>Ron, it is because the self allowed itself to be, and it does so by
>confusing itself with its body.
>
>Ron:
>Maybe YOUR experience was an assault on your body but MY own
>experience was not. Don't tell me what  I experienced
>you pompous ass.
>
>(Arlo keeps on with his bad self)
>I'll be sure to tell my friend that "she" was, in fact, raped along
>with her body. But here again you lapse into rhetoric that makes me
>question my civility. I am trying, Ron, really trying to have a civil
>conversation with you, but you ain't makin' it easy. You want to
>start playing these games? You want to start with the little attacks
>and snide comments, well then so be it. From here on out, I'll give
>what I get, you want civility, then you better start giving it back.
>
>Ron:
>I'm game, lets see what you have, cock sucker.
>
>(Arlo tells me how weak I am for being traumatized)
>Which he can only do if I let him, if I am so weak that I allow him
>to, if I am so caught up in conflating my body and my self. No one
>can destroy my personhood, Ron, unless I allow them to. But I'll be
>sure to tell my friend that her personhood was destroyed too. She
>tells me it was not, but if you say it was it must've been.
>
>Ron:
>You are really unbelievable in your rhetoric and tactic
>you self inflated blow-hard.
>Blah, Blah, Blah, if you haven't been there then shut the fuck up.
>
>dick
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Shoot for the moon.  Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars.........
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