[MD] Many Avatars, Many Selves

[ml]

All,  

(Whisky-Tango-Foxtrot-?-
This feels like someone is trying to 
shave their tender parts with a wood-rasp.)

I am not a Horse, nor do I play one on TV,
but were I to, I imagine I'd suggest that
any form of  personally agitated discussion 
be taken off-line, and once the interraction
at the biological-social level is satisfied, 
resume with I-level discussion or abandon
the thread if its content no longer matters
at I-level.

Please?

thanks--mel

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ron Kulp" <RKulp at ebwalshinc.com>
To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 6:42 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] Many Avatars, Many Selves


> 
> [Ron]
> As you just demonstrated, it is a matter of degree and perspective as 
> to exactly what constitutes "harm". Ones harm is another's creative 
> play. Where's the line? who draws it?
> 
> [Arlo]
> Here, in Azeroth, in Norrath, the answer is the same, you do.
> 
> [Ron]
> So if I draw the line at false identities who are you to call this 
> value an illusion that is not real?
> 
> [Arlo]
> You can think what you want, but when you impose on ME a realness 
> that does not exist, that is where I step up and call it an illusion. 
> If you wanted to think, for example, that my body determines my 
> gender, go ahead. But if you tell others "the real Arlo is X" based 
> on this, and make the claim that my gender otherwise is pretend or 
> false, then I step up, most certainly. In other words, *I* determine 
> what is "real" about "me". You can accept it or reject it, but you 
> can't tell ME what is "real" and what is "not". But why don't you go 
> ahead and tell me what a "false identity" is. What makes one "false" 
> and another "real"? You continue to attack my position without 
> articulating any alternative.
> 
> So do so now, Ron. What is a "real identity"? How do we determine 
> what it is? What makes one identity "false" and another "real"? Give 
> me something to use to make this determination.
> 
> Ron:
> it makes all this shit a matter of opinion so before I bow out of 
> ball of garbage...
> MY opinion of a false identity is composing an identity which is not
> based
> on personal experience an identity that has no social context.
> 
> [Ron]
> Obviously you have never been raped or abused or you'd see the 
> ridiculousness of that statement.
> 
> [Arlo continues to talk about something he has not experienced
> like the pompous authority on everything he is]
> No, I've never been raped. But one of my closest friends has been a 
> rape counselor for years. And I've had other, intimate, exposures to 
> this in my life as well. Rape is a crime against the body. Much of 
> the trauma to the self results from conflating this assault with an 
> assault on the "self". It is not. Healing begins with that 
> recognition. When someone close to me was raped, she was the first to 
> say, "my body was raped, but *I* was not". I have seen the ravages on 
> others who are unable to disambiguate the act against their body from 
> an act against themselves. If the "self" is destroyed in this act, 
> Ron, it is because the self allowed itself to be, and it does so by 
> confusing itself with its body.
> 
> Ron:
> Maybe YOUR experience was an assault on your body but MY own
> experience was not. Don't tell me what  I experienced
> you pompous ass.
> 
> (Arlo keeps on with his bad self)
> I'll be sure to tell my friend that "she" was, in fact, raped along 
> with her body. But here again you lapse into rhetoric that makes me 
> question my civility. I am trying, Ron, really trying to have a civil 
> conversation with you, but you ain't makin' it easy. You want to 
> start playing these games? You want to start with the little attacks 
> and snide comments, well then so be it. From here on out, I'll give 
> what I get, you want civility, then you better start giving it back.
> 
> Ron:
> I'm game, lets see what you have, cock sucker.
> 
> (Arlo tells me how weak I am for being traumatized)
> Which he can only do if I let him, if I am so weak that I allow him 
> to, if I am so caught up in conflating my body and my self. No one 
> can destroy my personhood, Ron, unless I allow them to. But I'll be 
> sure to tell my friend that her personhood was destroyed too. She 
> tells me it was not, but if you say it was it must've been.
> 
> Ron:
> You are really unbelievable in your rhetoric and tactic
> you self inflated blow-hard.
> Blah, Blah, Blah, if you haven't been there then shut the fuck up.
> 
> dick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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