[MD] Philosophy and Philosophology

[MarshaV]

Good Evening Ham,


-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of Ham Priday
Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 1:30 AM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] Philosophy and Philosophology


Hi Marsha --


>[Marsha]:
> How about the mind?  I thought first the body(brain(senses
> and memory)), but they are conceptually, constructed patterns.
> It does seem that those patterns have us.

Ham:
Indeed, how ABOUT the mind? ...the conscious awareness of "being in a 
relational world." Those "constructed patterns" represent the Value WE bring

into existence as finite beingness.  They are our experience of the physical

universe.

Because Value "has us", WE have the UNIVERSE!

Marsha:
I think static patterns of value are memory, a rerun, of past value
events/processes brought into mind by the previous moment. The static
patterns of value are the Universe (self and other) as constructed and
known, and are mistaken for a separate physical universe. 


[Marsha adds]:
> Maybe it would be better to say mind/consciousness, and that
> sets up a nice relationship.  Mind/consciousness cannot exist
> without patterns, and patterns cannot exist without mind/consciousness.

Ham:
No, Marsha.  "Mind/consciousness" is redundant.  The mind IS conscious 
awareness.  Let's not get confused about proprietary (subjective) awareness.

But let's not dismiss it, as Pirsig did..

Marsha:
Quality inspires conscious awareness.  


[Marsha adds something from Ant's PhD]:
> As Pirsig rejects both mind-substance (i.e. the 'ghost') and
> matter-substance (i.e. the 'machine') oriented ontologies of the world,
> he employs one underpinned by value based events, Quality is
> considered the source of subjects and objects and can be regarded
> as a Dynamic event (1995a, p.12); an 'event at which the subject
> becomes aware of the object.'  (ZMM, 1974a, p.239)
> These Quality events (or processes), therefore, obtain the status as
> the fundamental unit or 'primitives' of the universe and provide
> a unity between the observer and the observed; knowing mind and
> object.
(A Critical Analysis of Robert Pirsig's Metaphysics of Quality,2005,Watts,
p.133)

Ham:
If you can comprehend all that, you're a better philosophologist than I am.


Marsha:
The above statement from Ant's PhD was a response to a Merleau-Ponty quote
and it was probably unfair of me to isolate it from its context, but the
important point is that RMP has designated "Quality events (or processes)"
as the basis of the Universe (reality) which is then conceptually
constructed (mistakenly) as independent self and objects. 


Marsha