[MD] Villains

[OZ]

Thanks for the replies, folks.  John, I hope that the roller coaster ride
you mentioned ends soon.

I seem to remember Pirsig discussing an example of right and wrong in "Lila"
regarding an inner city neighborhood where biological African-Americans
squared off against social ones.  I think he meant that the former were
biological because their actions were intended to benefit themselves
individually and biologically, perhaps for illicit drugs, etc.  This is
similar to John's idea that villains strive to benefit a subjective self.

Further, Marsha, I agree with Pirsig that our intellect and logic has made
humans powerful but dangerous.

As far as who wins or who loses against villains, I came across an
interesting section about that in ZAMM:

"I think that if we are going to reform the world, and make it a better
place to live in, the way to do it is not with the talk about relationships
of a political nature, which are inevitably dualistic...The place to improve
the world is first in one's own hear and head and hands, and then work
outward from there (267)."

I guess one shouldn't try to be a hero; one should try to *not* to try too
much so that it is easier to sense Quality.

Otto


On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 1:21 PM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:

>
> Greetings Otto,
>
> I think biological patterns are more likely to be unconscious, but then
> social patterns also tend to be unconscious.  When aware of one's
> intellectual patterns, it seems one is not in the grips of those patterns,
> so I don't know.
>
> Do you think there is a 'world domination by the human species'?
>
>
> Marsha
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of Otto Zequeira
> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 9:37 PM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] Villains
>
> Thanks for the reply, Marsha.  Are dynamic, intellectual and social quality
> stronger than the biological quality of villains?  I think I just answered
> that question for myself by writing it.  Is the current world domination of
> by the human species a proof?
>
> Otto
>
> On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 11:46 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>
> > Otto,
> >
> > Isn't a mean guy a collection of static patterns related to an individual
> > mind/brain. And it doesn't mean that social, intellectual and dynamic
> > morality cannot construct a defense against that mean guy.
> >
> >
> > Marsha
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> > [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of Otto
> Zequeira
> > Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 11:39 AM
> > To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org; moq_discuss at lists.moqtalk.org;
> > ozequeira at aol.com
> > Subject: [MD] Villains
> >
> > Dear all:
> >
> > How are you?  I hope you're doing well.
> >
> > In chapter 8 of ZAM, Pirsig wrote, "There's no villain, no "mean guy" who
> > wants (us) to live meaningless lives, it's just that the structure, the
> > system demands it...".
> >
> > Are there no villains, and just systems?  Are there no people who are
> aware
> > of the dangers or possible negative consequences of rationality and
> proceed
> > to act in such a direction due to self-interest, placing biological
> > morality
> > over social, intellectual and dynamic morality?
> >
> > Otto
> > Moq_Discuss mailing list
> > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> > Archives:
> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
> >
> > Moq_Discuss mailing list
> > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> > Archives:
> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
> >
> Moq_Discuss mailing list
> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> Archives:
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
>
> Moq_Discuss mailing list
> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> Archives:
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
>