[MD] Villains

[John Carl]

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 5:47 PM, OZ <ozequeira at gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks for the replies, folks.  John, I hope that the roller coaster ride
> you mentioned ends soon.
>

Ah well Otto, since my metaphor is of life, I hope it just keeps going up
and down and never ends!  But I think I know what you mean.  At least I'm
construing it as well-wishing.

I seem to remember Pirsig discussing an example of right and wrong in "Lila"
> regarding an inner city neighborhood where biological African-Americans
> squared off against social ones.  I think he meant that the former were
> biological because their actions were intended to benefit themselves
> individually and biologically, perhaps for illicit drugs, etc.  This is
> similar to John's idea that villains strive to benefit a subjective self.


We all strive to benefit our subjective self.  The question is whether we
care about any detriment to others our actions may take.  The narcissist
doesn't care - or even notice really, any reality beyond their narrow
selfish needs.

But regarding the immorality of the biologicals vs. the socials, I don't
quite follow that line of thinking.  In fact, I have big problems with it.
It's part of my problem with the hierarchical nature of levels of morality
that facile projection of the biological as being "inferior".  It reminds me
of the christian doctrine of "sinful flesh", which also makes me shudder
with revulsion.

>From a Taoist perspective, a biologically-oriented human is one that follows
the Way - whereas a socially-motivated human is striving to gain status in
some fashion and has lost the true Way.



> Further, Marsha, I agree with Pirsig that our intellect and logic has made
> humans powerful but dangerous.
>

I chime in my agreement as well.



> As far as who wins or who loses against villains, I came across an
> interesting section about that in ZAMM:
>
> "I think that if we are going to reform the world, and make it a better
> place to live in, the way to do it is not with the talk about relationships
> of a political nature, which are inevitably dualistic...The place to
> improve
> the world is first in one's own hear and head and hands, and then work
> outward from there (267)."


"Work outward from there." sounds good in theory.  The instantiation can be
a bitch.  There is an interesting interplay between the individual and the
community at work in this seemingly simple instruction which I think we need
more help on.



> I guess one shouldn't try to be a hero; one should try to *not* to try too
> much so that it is easier to sense Quality.
>

The Hero.  We shouldn't try to be heroes, and yet this is what drives the
urge to individual excellence.   We strive to "save" the world all the time.
 Pirsig is my one of my heroes, but he wrote ZAMM  as if Phaedrus was HIS
hero!

Today, my most heroic figures  are firefighters as it appears they have a
handle upon the flames under my smoky sky.

John the watery-eyed


>