[MD] Salami & Wisdom ?

Sun Aug 23 06:42:01 PDT 2009

I had felt that way too
but
I had a need to revisit it given I have learned that he
wote in the same style as Pirsig as a narrative.
a Koan

in Dwai's words:
This I believe was Nagarjuna's use of prasanga (or Dialectics) to show that any position in a debate can be reduced to absurdity and contradiction.

This is meant to show that no categorical framework in itself is absolute...neither the "truth claims" that they make. The "Truth"/Reality that people see/adhere to is simply a result of the categorical framework they use."

Understanding it in this way and not in the way he has been interpreted as other philosophic writing of the time

of an exponding of an absollute philosphical system to be dogmatically followed as Aristotle or protagoras.
try reading Sophist, just this once with this sort of eye and, in relation to the conversations that have been
engaged recently. 

You may be pleasently suprised

I was

"

----- Original Message ----
From: MarshaV <valkyr at att.net>
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 3:05:59 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] Salami & Wisdom ?

Ron,

I do not want to necessarily cause controversy, but I do not necessarily
want to avoid challenging what is politically correct, even philosophically,
either.  I'm not intelligent enough or philosophically knowledgeable enough
to be one much a challenge. -  I have the complete works of Plato, and have
read some of it.  I am tired of Plato, though, and would like to read and
consider seriously those writers who were/are thinking around, beyond,
beneath Plato for a different perspective, a better perspective.

Marsha

-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of X Acto
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 5:25 PM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] Salami & Wisdom ?

I think a better term

one that would draw less

controversy is Pragmatism

which holds many truths

and which are contextual 
to experience

I just read

Sophist

by Plato and it is a wonderful dialog of the sort

you are pursuing

http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/sophist.html

and an excellent piece to discuss which concerns the issue without getting

personal in way of beliefs and accusitory of attacks

-Ron

----- Original Message ----
From: MarshaV <valkyr at att.net>
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:14:29 PM
Subject: Re: [MD] Salami & Wisdom ?

>From Wiki:  

"The term (Relativism) often refers to truth relativism, which is the
doctrine that there are no absolute truths, i.e., that truth is always
relative to some particular frame of reference, such as a language or a
culture."  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativism      

The MoQ support multiple truths.  Seems to me the frame of reference within
the MoQ would be the value.  

-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of david buchanan
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 1:01 PM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] Salami & Wisdom ?

Marsha said:
Just for the record, I still say the truth of knowledge, which is static
patterns of value, is still relative to immediate experience.

dmb says:

According to my computer's dictionary, the term "relative" has seven
different definitions. Four of them are adjectives. Three of them are nouns.
None of them refers to "relativism". In your sentence above, the term
"relative" is used to mean that static patterns are "related" to immediate
experience or that concepts exist in "relation" to immediate experience. If
you mean to say that concepts are derived from experience, I'd agree.
Unfortunately, that has nothing to do with relativism. As the little joke
about me and my cousin being related to each other was meant to indicate, as
the explanation about panrelationalism was meant to indicate, relativism is
NOT merely a claim that one thing is related to another - whether than
relation is genetic or conceptual or anything else. That's just not what
relativism means. That's just not how people use the term. Well, not
informed people anyway.
It's hard to me to believe that you are really THAT confused about what the
word means. Don't take my word for it. Look it up.

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