[MD] Salami & Wisdom ?

Marsha valkyr at att.net
Sun Aug 23 06:56:03 PDT 2009 

Ron,

Where did you learn that Plato wrote in koans?

Marsha

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 23, 2009, at 9:42 AM, X Acto <xacto at rocketmail.com> wrote:

> I had felt that way too
> but
> I had a need to revisit it given I have learned that he
> wote in the same style as Pirsig as a narrative.
> a Koan
>
> in Dwai's words:
> This I believe was Nagarjuna's use of prasanga (or Dialectics) to  
> show that any position in a debate can be reduced to absurdity and  
> contradiction.
>
> This is meant to show that no categorical framework in itself is  
> absolute...neither the "truth claims" that they make. The "Truth"/ 
> Reality that people see/adhere to is simply a result of the  
> categorical framework they use."
>
> Understanding it in this way and not in the way he has been  
> interpreted as other philosophic writing of the time
>
> of an exponding of an absollute philosphical system to be  
> dogmatically followed as Aristotle or protagoras.
> try reading Sophist, just this once with this sort of eye and, in  
> relation to the conversations that have been
> engaged recently.
>
> You may be pleasently suprised
>
> I was
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: MarshaV <valkyr at att.net>
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 3:05:59 AM
> Subject: Re: [MD] Salami & Wisdom ?
>
> Ron,
>
> I do not want to necessarily cause controversy, but I do not  
> necessarily
> want to avoid challenging what is politically correct, even  
> philosophically,
> either.  I'm not intelligent enough or philosophically knowledgeable  
> enough
> to be one much a challenge. -  I have the complete works of Plato,  
> and have
> read some of it.  I am tired of Plato, though, and would like to  
> read and
> consider seriously those writers who were/are thinking around, beyond,
> beneath Plato for a different perspective, a better perspective.
>
> Marsha
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of X Acto
> Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 5:25 PM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] Salami & Wisdom ?
>
> I think a better term
>
> one that would draw less
>
> controversy is Pragmatism
>
> which holds many truths
>
> and which are contextual
> to experience
>
> I just read
>
> Sophist
>
> by Plato and it is a wonderful dialog of the sort
>
> you are pursuing
>
> http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/sophist.html
>
>
> and an excellent piece to discuss which concerns the issue without  
> getting
>
> personal in way of beliefs and accusitory of attacks
>
> -Ron
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: MarshaV <valkyr at att.net>
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:14:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [MD] Salami & Wisdom ?
>
>> From Wiki:
>
> "The term (Relativism) often refers to truth relativism, which is the
> doctrine that there are no absolute truths, i.e., that truth is always
> relative to some particular frame of reference, such as a language  
> or a
> culture."
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativism
>
>
> The MoQ support multiple truths.  Seems to me the frame of reference  
> within
> the MoQ would be the value.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of david  
> buchanan
> Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 1:01 PM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] Salami & Wisdom ?
>
>
> Marsha said:
> Just for the record, I still say the truth of knowledge, which is  
> static
> patterns of value, is still relative to immediate experience.
>
>
> dmb says:
>
> According to my computer's dictionary, the term "relative" has seven
> different definitions. Four of them are adjectives. Three of them  
> are nouns.
> None of them refers to "relativism". In your sentence above, the term
> "relative" is used to mean that static patterns are "related" to  
> immediate
> experience or that concepts exist in "relation" to immediate  
> experience. If
> you mean to say that concepts are derived from experience, I'd agree.
> Unfortunately, that has nothing to do with relativism. As the little  
> joke
> about me and my cousin being related to each other was meant to  
> indicate, as
> the explanation about panrelationalism was meant to indicate,  
> relativism is
> NOT merely a claim that one thing is related to another - whether than
> relation is genetic or conceptual or anything else. That's just not  
> what
> relativism means. That's just not how people use the term. Well, not
> informed people anyway.
> It's hard to me to believe that you are really THAT confused about  
> what the
> word means. Don't take my word for it. Look it up.
>
>
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