[MD] The percolating SOL

[MarshaV]

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From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of david buchanan
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:03 PM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] The percolating SOL


Marsah said:
I would never claim to be able to think backwards, so I have no speculation
about a primary cause.   But my answer to Ham, ' The previous value event.'
was based on my experience of meditation.  Would that be goofy, Dave?

dmb says:
It was Ham's question that I found goofy and fake. But since you're asking,
I think your answer to that goofy question was contradicted by the Pirsig
quote you posted later. Value or Quality is the first thing we know and I
see no reason to posit anything prior to the first thing we know. Besides,
to say that the previous value comes before value isn't really an answer at
all. It just repeats the question or rather begs for a repetition of the
same question. What is the cause of value? What is the cause of the previous
value? Or the one before that or the one before that, etc..
Like time and space and all those other Kantian intuitions, causality is
deduced from experience. We can see that one event repeatedly follows
another but we never see causality. Pirsig goes beyond all this but...

Marsha:
Ham asked about cause, I did not posit cause and effect, I did not say one
thought caused the next, I just described my experience during meditation.
You and Ham brought up cause. In meditation, I have a mental
event(experience), followed by another mental event(experience), followed by
another mental event(experience).  Each mental event(experience) arises,
exists, and disappears. I have never experienced having two mental
events(experiences) at the same time so maybe the disappearance of one allow
the next, I don't know.  I was describing my experience during meditation,
_my experience during meditation, Dave_.  Doesn't my experience count?  I
thought for a Radical Empiricist experience counts?  I have had the
experience of seeing without concepts(experiences) too, at least for a few
minutes.