[MD] The relativity of the MoQ

[MarshaV]

I associate all patterns from all levels with the Buddhist notion of
conventional reality, patterns exist by convention, they are mutually
interrelated and ever-changing, and conventionally true, or true relative to
agreement.  I will agree that according to the MoQ intellectual patterns
represent higher value of experience than social, biological and inorganic
patterns, but that doesn't make them any more true (for me).  Intellectual
patterns may be conventionally true today, and wrong tomorrow.  I want to
disassociate patterns from the concept of truth.  Higher or lower value,
better or worse, but not ever true.  For me it seems like a healthier
point-of-view.    

On the other hand Dynamic Quality I associate with the Buddhist notion of
Ultimate Truth.  It is indivisible, undefinable and unknowable, and can be
approached only by negation.  Ultimate Truth can be approached only be
discovering something is false.  Not this, not that.  

This is how I have it worked out.

Maybe your axis approach works for you, but truth, for me, in relation to
static patterns of value is illusionary.  


Marsha








-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of John Carl
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 11:59 AM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] The relativity of the MoQ

I think I follow you Marsha,
Where you associate intellect as an abstract pattern from the intellectual
level, I merely add that the value of any intellectual pattern on that level
is relative to how true it is.  If it is not very true, then it has little
intellectual value.  If it is very true, then it has high intellectual
value.  Thus Truth is the "direction" on the intellectual axis, just as
"good" is a direction on the quality axis.





On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 8:36 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:

>
> Hi John,
>
> To keep it straight in my tiny skull, I think of intelligence as a
process,
> an activity, and I associate intellect with a type of abstract pattern
from
> the Intellectual Level.
>
> While I see that an independent, enduring self is an illusion, I do
believe
> there is more to an individual than patterns.  There is an awareness that
> is
> separate from patterns.  I can experience it, but I'm not sure how to
> define
> it.
>
> I do not understand what you mean when you talk of truth as related to
> intellect, because I associate intellect with a type of abstract pattern.
> I'm not sure we are sharing like definitions.  For example, in a given
> situation it would be using intelligence to apply the most appropriate
> social pattern.  While in the same situation it might be a total lack of
> intelligence to apply a intellectual pattern.  Am I making sense?
>
>
> Marsha
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of John Carl
> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 10:59 AM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] The relativity of the MoQ
>
> Marsha,
>
>
> > That last remark was really to John who suggested that truth is the
> highest
> > quality of intellect. NOT!  At least, not for me.
> >
> >
> Biology has the highest value of procreation.  Society worships celebrity
> and for any intellectual statement there is no higher value than truth.
>
> Now, in this formulation, an individual contains biological, social and
> intellectual patterns, but an individual is more then their patterns.
>
> So I agree with you, that a person's highest value is DQ, but an
> intellect's
> highest value is truth.  Intellect is alienated from experience, whereas a
> person is not.  Does that make more sense formulated that way?
>
> John the person
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