[MD] The relativity of the MoQ

[Steve Peterson]

Hi Platt,


>>> Right. For me Quality, beauty is there all the time, all around us,
>>> in the
>>> trees, the earth, the sky, the emptiness of space. It is there
>>> waiting for
>>> us to rejoin it. At death it is as if we move from one side of our
>>> senses to
>>> the other, from the highly filtered, highly processed world inside 
>>> the
>>> brain to the true unbounded universe where subjective and objective
>>> coalesce.  We step out of the dense fog of introverted human
>>> perception
>>> to  the clear air of reality. Where beauty is we will be.
>>
>> If Quality=reality=experience then we don't need to concerned with
>> any "dense fog of introverted human perception" that stands between
>> us and the world as it really is. The MOQ perspective as I understand
>> it makes it impossible to imagine being out of touch with reality
>> since experience IS reality, so we never need to worry about trying
>> to get back in touch with it after death. On the other hand, Pirsig
>> wrote bits about the possibility of "taking off the cultural glasses"
>> that contradict this view, but I think such passages are a step
>> backward from the Quality postulate to a subject-object, appearance-
>> reality picture where taking off the glasses as a philosophical goal
>> makes sense. Maybe Pirsig would respond with something about 180
>> versus 360 Zen. I remember reading something like that somewhere. Do
>> you recall where?
>
> I don't recall anything about 180 vs 360 Zen, but I do recall Pirsig 
> saying
> metaphysics "pollutes" pure experience by attempting to define the
> indefinable. But, being human "the only person who doesn't pollute the
> mystic reality of the world with fixed metaphysical meanings is a 
> person
> who hasn't yet been born-and to whose birth no thought has been
> given." (Lila, 5) In other words, we define to survive, explaining my
> description of "the dense fog of introverted human perception." For me
> the "MOQ perspective" cuts through the fog better than the SOM view,
> but does not substitute for pure or mystic experience which, for me
> anyway has only occurred briefly, "when Dynamic Quality all around
> (me) shone through." (Lila, 9) Perhaps, as others have testified, I 
> will
> see the DQ light at the moment of death.
>
> Hope this is responsive to your comments.



Found that bit I was referring to here:
http://www.ect.org/robert-pirsig-still-zen-after-all-these-years/
“As I see these two books,” Pirsig says, drawing an oval on a notepad, 
“there is a Zen circle. You start here with Zen,” he says, marking an 
X, “and then you go here to enlightenment, that’s what’s called 180 
Zen. Then you go back to where you started from — that’s 360 Zen — and 
the world is exactly as it was when you left it.” Pirsig sits back and 
lets that sink in, then adds: “Well, I felt that Zen and the Art of 
Motorcycle Maintenance was the journey out, and Lila was this trip 
back.”

I think he means when you get back to 360 Zen, everyday ordinary 
experience is Quality.