[MD] Empirical and Historical

[Steve Peterson]

> Hi Craig,


> [Steve]
>> DQ as pre-intellectual makes sense from the empirical perspective
>> where time itself is not a given but derived from experience. From
>> this perspective ideas come first
> [Craig, previously]
>> This seems contradictory.   If the empirical perspective is
>> “pre-intellectual”, then how can it be a perspective where
>> “ideas come first”?
> [Steve]
>>   Ideas come first as in the dynamic/static split. They are the first
>>  static patterns
>
Craig:
> Pirsig mentions carbon static patterns, which must preceed ideas by
> millions of years.

Steve:
 From the historical point of view, carbon does indeed come before  
ideas, but the historical point of view itself is an idea which  
precedes the idea of carbon.  So from an empirical point of view,  
ideas come before carbon.