[MD] Empirical and Historical

[skutvik at online.no]

Hi Platt

11 July you  wrote:

> Maybe there are two MOQ's. 1) the mystic MOQ of direct experience, 2)
> the idea MOQ consisting of DQ/SQ with a hierarchy of static patterns.

There definitely are two Qualities; Dynamic or "mystic" quality, and 
static quality.  

> MOQ 1 is monism, without pattern, consisting solely of value.

All right, it's dynamic no more no less.

> MOQ 2 is dualism, patterned, consisting of many ideas.

It's static and comes in the known 4 levels. Ideas, concepts, thoughts 
..et. equal to "static" (the Quality/MOQ assertion)  I don't buy. Nothing 
can be conveyed without language.

> Question: Where does MOQ 2 belong in the MOQ 2 hierarchy of levels?

See below!

> Answer: Not in the intellectual level because the MOQ cannot be a part
> of itself.. So MOQ 2 must be in a metal-level, or perhaps the level of
> art Pirsig briefly mentioned.

Where the MOQ belongs in the MOQ is a tricky question, I have used 
the term "meta-level", but people easily misunderstand and believe 
it's a static level outside intellect, but it is the DQ/SQ reality itself. All 
efforts to keep DQ outside of the MOQ is futile

Scientific theories can be presented as independent of the theory and 
the latter-day Pirsig tries the same with the MOQ, as if he accidentally 
discovered Quality's unique position, but as he demonstrated in 
ZAMM (the Newton Gravity example) he Quality Reality is the MOQ. 
Not as an idea in Pirsig's mind, but as the metaphysics, wherever it 
had its origin.  

> Just some ideas to kick around.

Right, so I have ;-) 

Bodvar