[MD] Evolution

Joseph Maurer jhmau at sbcglobal.net
Mon Jul 20 13:06:31 PDT 2009 



On 7/20/09 1:22 AM, "MarshaV" <valkyr at att.net> wrote:

Hi Marsha

Words are relative!   Words of truth are relative!  Communication by words
of truth is relative.

Actions from a sense of truth are relative. Actions speak louder than words!
Change is relative.

Evolution is not relative, if it is an order in existence.

I grew up on a small farm in Michigan, the 6th child of 14, the 5th boy of 9
boys.  Milk from a herd of 20 some cows with a bull for breeding was the
stable income. I remember when I was 4 I slept in a dormitory style room
with my sister who was 2 1Ž2.  I asked her if she wanted to fuck, and when Mom
came up to brush her hair she said: Dutchy (my nick name) fucked me.  Lots
of fireworks!

That was probably part of the reason they wanted to get me out of the house.
I was in the 8th grade getting ready for high school.  My Dad asked me if I
wanted to go to school in Grand Rapids (about 62 miles away).  I had no idea
they meant the Catholic Seminary to study to become a priest.  What the
hell, I had nothing better to do, and the sexual tensions were real.   My
later understanding was that my parents saw those sexual tensions in me and
asked if I wanted to go away to the high school. I thank them for the care
and struggle to pay for my education in a seminary, instead of the free
public high school that the rest of my brothers and sisters attended.  I
stayed 6 years and they decided to not allow me to go the major seminary
where the diocese would cover my expenses.

After the army in Korea for two years I went to college at the Dominican
staffed college in Grand Rapids for 2 years to get my BA.  Then I went to a
Dominican monastery for 4 more years.  They still didn¹t like me after I
told one of the Brothers I wanted to sleep with him.   They told me to
leave.  This was in 1963. I felt that such tensions were better explored
openly than in secret.

I don¹t know what you mean by your question about the explanations for
³circling the moon?²  Creation?  I don¹t expect mine is a typical story!
Except the later getting married to Louise.  We had  4 kids in 5
pregnancies.  Later Louise got her BA while working in the business office
of a unique health care organization, Kaiser in northern CA. I became a
self-employed plumber to help support it all.

Evolution?  I am in tears of joy when I read Pirsig explaining morality in
evolution! I accept 7 levels in evolution instead of 4.  You know the
musical octave and such.

Joe

> Greetings Joe,
> 
> What is not relative?  I might wonder what put you into a seminary for 12
> years?  I was very small when I sensed there was something behind the words
> and explanations: the moon, the Absolute, Dynamic Quality.  Not this, not
> that, and certainly not a metaphysics.
> 
>   And what is good, Phædrus,
>   And what is not good...
>   Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?
> 
> Did you find the explanations for circling the moon satisfying? Creation?
> Evolution?  I'd say: not this, not that.
> 
> I love the Metaphysics of Quality, an inquiry into morals.
>  
>  
> Marsha 
>   
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of Joseph Maurer
> Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 5:29 PM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] Evolution
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 7/19/09 12:43 AM, "MarshaV" <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi Marsha and all,
> 
> My thought as I typed ³Absolute² was that Pirsig tied morals to evolution.
> On my copy of Lila the subtitle is AN INQUIRY INTO MORALS.  My sense is that
> for Pirsig evolution is not speculation, but the metaphysical description
> for levels of Quality.  These levels become the metaphysical basis for
> morality.  Is it that just metaphysical descriptions are subject to
> evolution, or are social laws?  My thought is that the members of society
> are also evolving or have already evolved to the intellectual level and
> beyond (Bo¹s meta-level).   IMO the basis for morality transcends cultural
> differences so I used the word ³Absolute².   I would not defend it other
> than in an evolutionary scenario.  I sincerely hope that explanation helps
> relieve the ³troubling².
> 
> I realize now that mathematics¹ has broader conceptualizations, the
> universe.  Maybe evolution is specific to Earth¹s inhabitants.  I do not
> want to start a creation-evolution debate, even though morality may not be
> specific to earth, when Worlds collide. IMO Pirsig avoided discussing any
> origins for the moon¹s orbit around the earth.  But I have read some
> explanations for the moon¹s orbit around Earth.
> 
> Joe
> 
>> Greetings Joe,
>> 
>> Isn't evolution also related to human conceptualization?  Where does the
>> very word and definition of 'evolution' come from?  Isn't evolution merely
>> the best intellectual (scientific) static pattern of value explaining the
>> origin of life on Earth?  What about time?  Does evolution assume a
>> relationship with time?  Is time an Absolute?  No, how can it be, is it
>> related to change/motion?  Your view of evolution as Absolute on planet
>> Earth is troubling.
>> 
>> Marsha
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Marsha and all.
>> 
>> My story is chance.   I studied in a Catholic Seminary, College and
>> Monastery for 12 years. After 12 years of studying St Thomas Aquinas, I
>> thought I knew Philosophy.  I was married to Louise after Anna was born.
> We
>> studied esotericism for 4 years with a lady who had studied with John
>> Bennett. 
>> 
>> Louise decided to get a BA degree so she could get a better job, and in
> the
>> course of her studies Zen and the Art was suggested reading.  She told me
> I
>> would like it.  I did, and later I bought Lila in paperback.  Then by
> chance
>> I found the forum.
>> 
>> I was skeptical, but something in me resonates to Quality. I think
> evolution
>> is Absolute truth on planet Earth.
>> 
>> Joe
>> 
>>> Hi Joe,
>>> 
>>> Nothing wrong with conventional truth as long as I don't mistake it for
>>> Absolute Truth.  Evolution is a great conventional truth.  It has a
>> history,
>>> it has changed over time, and will continue to change until it has too
>> many
>>> anomalies to survive. I like to think of everyday experience and
>>> conventional truth like a kaleidoscope. Each shift exposes a different,
>>> astounding view.  But I haven't always been so mellow.
>>> 
>>> What's your story Joe?  What moved you to philosophy?  What brought you
> to
>>> this forum?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Marsha
>> 
>> 
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