[MD] Moq Evolution

Wed Jul 22 17:00:21 PDT 2009

On 7/22/09 1:45 PM, "MarshaV" <valkyr at att.net> wrote:

Hello Joe,

[Marsha]
An interesting aspect of your posts is that I am never sure how to respond,
so I wing it.

[Joe]
I miss Krimel¹s spontaneity.  ³wing it² I can hear him guffawing about
brining chickens to mind.  In a heavy rainstorm chickens will look up, open
their beaks, and drown.

[Marsha]
Do I think Quality is moral?  I image it is totally moral.  When I am not
separate from Quality it feels to be, without exception, totally moral.

[Joe]
If quality is metaphysical everything, How do you separate from quality?

[Marsha]
What do I think about the MoQ Evolution?  I think it is an elegant part of
the RMP's metaphysics.  Beautiful in its modern intellectual explanation.
Coherent might be a good word.  But, Joe, I am not inspired by it on a
mystical level.  For me the Net of Jewels model is better, where the reason
for a pattern's existence is dependent on the existence of every other
pattern throughout all four levels (conventional reality).  Here's where,
not two truths, but the example of two maps might apply.

[Joe]
In the past I have used the word ³mystical² for the perception of undefined
dynamic quality.  For whatever reason I have come to see that I perceive
³mystical as a ³weasel² word, and I avoid it.

[Marsha]
It is also for the mystical experience, which should be common, not rare,
that I am led to want a meta-level. Intellectual patterns seem to block the
mystical experience.  If the MoQ view was seen above the Intellectual Level
it would be understood as fully and knowingly participating in the
conventional/patterned reality (all four levels) and also maintaining a
direct relationship with Ultimate/Dynamic Reality.

[Joe]
Imho the two levels above the intellectual level are levels only in
awareness: higher emotional level, higher intellectual level.

[Marsha]
The Subject/Object point-of-view with its me, me, me is insane.  And as far
as I'm concerned the Intellectual Level is subject/object through and
through.  Even within the new Quantum understanding, it is administered
steeped in objectivity and often laced with materialism.  I have sent for a
book, "Understanding the Uncertainty principle" to see what it says, but I
don't have much hope.  There are scientists that have jumped the fence and
running free, but they do not seem to be considered mainstream.  Of course I
am not a Quantum insider, and know what I know as someone not scientifically
or mathematically trained, just someone peering in a window.

[Joe]
My experience with the word Quantum was Latin, in conjunction with the word
Tantum.
Tantum/quantum, As much, so much.

[Joe]
Esoteric literature proposes seven levels for evolution using the musical
scale as an example. I am not sure but I think the musical scale was
attributed to Pythagoras.  I did not understand what I found in a Google
search.  

[Marsha]
I love it when you write of seven levels.  I read a bit about harmony when I
was studying classical guitar, and I always think you are talking about
harmony and making beautiful music.

Marsha

[Joe]
AW GI

Joe

> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of Joseph Maurer
> Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 3:13 PM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] Moq Evolution
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 7/21/09 1:38 PM, "Joseph Maurer" <jhmau at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> 
> [Marsha:]
> Evolution is a high quality intellectual (scientific) static pattern of
> value concerned with the order of existence.
>  
> [Marsha:]
> Holy Moly, I'm from Michigan too. Small world. My favorite place was Irish
> Hills where my Oma lived on one of the Twin Lakes.
> 
> [Marsha:]
> Reality?  I was in tears of joy with the best understanding of REALITY I
> ever heard spoken by Lila: "...I'm whatever your questions turn me into. You
> don't see that. It's your questions that make me who I am. If you think I'm
> an angel then that's what I am. If you think I'm a whore then that's what I
> am. I'm whatever you think. And if you change your mind about me then I
> change too. So whatever Richard tells you, it's true. There's no way he can
> lie about me."   -    Reality is whatever you think it is, there's no way
> you can lie about it, and if you change your understanding of reality, then
> reality changes too.
> 
> Hi Marsha and all,
> 
> [Joe]
> I have changed the name of the subject to MOQ EVOLITION
> 
> [Joe]
> Pirsig proposes four levels of evolution: inorganic, organic, social,
> intellectual.  He also says that the penetration of the egg cell wall, by
> the sperm cell, for reproduction is dynamic. DQ/SQ.  Morality is based on
> evolution.  The difference in levels  from lower to higher is the basis for
> a moral judgment.
> 
> [Joe]
> Bo proposes a meta-level is above intellect.  I am not sure.
> 
> [Joe]
> Esoteric literature proposes seven levels for evolution using the musical
> scale as an example. I am not sure but I think the musical scale was
> attributed to Pythagoras.  I did not understand what I found in a Google
> search.  
> 
>   
> 
> Joe
> 
>> 
>>>> Marsha
>>> 
>> 
>>> 
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