[MD] (Fwd) Re: John Carl Critiques Pure Experience:INST01

[X Acto]

Marsha:
Ah yes, man the measure of all things.  I find this pretty scary, but true.
What seems to be needed is a better set of tools to make the measurement and
determine a Good course of action based on his relationship with Nature.  

You might say dogs and bears measure all things in their own world, but even
to make such a suggestion is man measuring. And all definitions of how dogs
measure are man's measuring too.  So, as frightening as it is, intellectual
patterns are at the top of the heap. The question is: Where are the best
intellectual patterns available?  Here is where you can say much.

Ron:
I feel, that this is where Pirsigs quote of "while sustaining biological
and social patterns, kill all intellectual patterns" comes into focus

in other words, the best intellectual patterns are those that sustain
biological and social quality.



 


----- Original Message ----
From: MarshaV <valkyr at att.net>
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 2:44:52 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] (Fwd) Re: John Carl Critiques Pure Experience:INST01



-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of John Carl
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 4:36 PM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] (Fwd) Re: John Carl Critiques Pure Experience:INST01

John:
Bo, I don't know how much help I can be.  My quest is to overturn the
anthropocentric hierarchy of intellect being the most moral of the levels.

Marsha:
Ah yes, man the measure of all things.  I find this pretty scary, but true.
What seems to be needed is a better set of tools to make the measurement and
determine a Good course of action based on his relationship with Nature.  

You might say dogs and bears measure all things in their own world, but even
to make such a suggestion is man measuring. And all definitions of how dogs
measure are man's measuring too.  So, as frightening as it is, intellectual
patterns are at the top of the heap. The question is: Where are the best
intellectual patterns available?  Here is where you can say much.
      

John:
I believe values derive from man's relationship with nature, this is the
essence of Deep Ecology and the one thing that has been lacking in the Deep
Ecology Philosophy is a fully fleshed metaphysics, which I hope the MoQ can
provide - with a little tweaking of the levels away from this hierarchical
dominance model.

Marsha:
I agree with the importance of human beings understanding there
interrelationship with Nature.  I read lately on the micro-level, "I want to
point out that the causality chain that describes the events of life ceases
to be linear when you realize that amino acids are the elementary units of
building proteins, but amino acids are produced by proteins.  DNA is
necessary for producing proteins, but you need proteins (in the form of
enzymes) to build DNA.  So the causality chain is not linear but circular,
and actually more than circular--it is a complex three-dimensional net of
events, all dependent one on the other.  But no beginning, no starting point
of this causality net can be pointed out..." (Luigi Luisi,'GENTLE BRIDGES:
Conversations with the Dalai Lama on the Sciences of Mind') Recognizing this
interrelationship, seems to me, a high value intellectual pattern. It's the
web of life, or the net of jewels model, and it makes my heart go
pitter-patter like imagining dmb's starry night.  




Marsha



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