[MD] head, heart, hands and gumption

Sun May 3 10:44:47 PDT 2009

Greetings,

Within the hero's journey or in the hero's mind 
there is no room for 'becoming', there is simple 
no time for such thoughts, he is too busy in the 
thick of it.  Forgive me for the intrusion, but 
this kept me awake most of the night, it just 
needed to state it.  The same goes for she...

Marsha

At 01:34 PM 5/3/2009, you wrote:

>There, that's better.
>
>
>
>At 01:26 PM 5/3/2009, you wrote:
>>DMB:
>>
>>O.K. no more movie quotes but it was fun.
>>
>>You observed that life can seem pointless and 
>>repetitious ( in Detroit, for example ). I 
>>think we can agree that you are observing a low quality static holding pattern.
>>
>>I claim that your observation implies the 
>>hypothesis: There must be a better way.
>>
>>I further claim that the only way to test this 
>>hypothesis is to live differently.
>>
>>Therefore talking, or hypothesizing, might be a 
>>necessary first step towards a higher quality 
>>situation, but it is insufficient. One needs gumption.
>>
>>And gumption is where the rubber meets the 
>>road. Gumption is action. Gumption is taking chances.
>>
>>I get the sense that you take gumption for granted. Am I wrong?
>>
>>you point out:
>>"I think this is what Pirsig is talking about when he says that one of
>>the biggest gumption suckers is value rigidity. Holding fast to static
>>patterns is what gets us stuck. And this stuckness is the prelude to a
>>dynamic expansion of values."
>>
>>Is it a prelude? Obviously some people don't ever get un-stuck.
>>
>>My point in all of this is that the moq is 
>>meaningless if it is not actually applied in some living way.
>>
>>...Our dried voices, when
>>We whisper together
>>Are quiet and meaningless
>>As wind in dry grass
>>Or rats' feet over broken glass
>>In our dry cellar ...
>>
>>Or perhaps we agree.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--- On Sun, 5/3/09, david buchanan <dmbuchanan at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>From: david buchanan <dmbuchanan at hotmail.com>
>>Subject: Re: [MD] head, heart and hands
>>To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>>Date: Sunday, May 3, 2009, 2:56 AM
>>
>>
>>
>>vonderwueste said to dmb: "Don't dream it ... 
>>BE it" - Rocky Horror The things that you 
>>mentioned represent low quality static holding 
>>patterns. Your implicit hypothesis states: There must be a better way.
>>  How do you suppose we might test the validity of this hypothesis?
>>
>>"He received no official clearance ... he just 
>>thought it up and did it ... the balls!" - Willard
>>
>>
>>dmb says:
>>Sorry, but you lost me. I can see that you 
>>don't approve but that's about all I can see. 
>>While it's not crazy to think there must be a 
>>better way, I don't see how this is my 
>>"implied" hypothesis. That thought never crossed my mind.
>>And yes, Kurtz got off the boat and split from 
>>the whole fucking program. Yes, Kurtz was 
>>brilliant and he had balls. But it's also true 
>>that Kurtz was psychotic. He was a monster. 
>>Willard is a successful hero because he 
>>resisted the temptation to replace Kurtz.
>>Did you somehow get the impression that my 
>>advice was to just dream and watch movies 
>>instead of live your life? That is definitely 
>>NOT what I'm saying. As you may have noticed in 
>>the Campbell quotes I posted in my reply to 
>>Marsha, the journey is not something that can 
>>be accomplished vicariously. As he and so many 
>>others have pointed out, it's something we all 
>>have to do alone. This mythology stuff is a 
>>living, breathing thing. Artists like Coppola 
>>are constantly finding new ways to evoke and inspire people with these symbols.
>>And as for the "low quality static holding 
>>patterns". The actual and explicit hypothesis is quite the opposite...
>>"The agony of breaking through personal 
>>limitations is the agony of spiritual growth. 
>>Art, literature, myth and cult, philosophy, and 
>>ascetic disciplines are instruments to help the 
>>individual past his limiting horizons into 
>>spheres of ever-expanding realizations." Campbell 190
>>"The mythological hero is the champion not of 
>>things become but of things becoming; the 
>>dragon to be slain by hims is precisely the 
>>monster of the status quo: Holdfast, the keeper 
>>of the past. ..With a gesture as simple as the 
>>pressing of a button, he annihilates the 
>>impressive configurations. The hero-deed is a 
>>continuous shattering of the crystallizations 
>>of the moment. The cycle rolls: mythology 
>>focuses on the growing point. Transformation, 
>>fluidity, not stubborn ponderosity, is the 
>>characteristic of the living God. ..Briefly, 
>>the ogre-tyrant is the champion of the 
>>prodigious fact, the hero the champion of creative life." Campbell 337
>>I think this is what Pirsig is talking about 
>>when he says that one of the biggest gumption 
>>suckers is value rigidity. Holding fast to 
>>static patterns is what gets us stuck. And this 
>>stuckness is the prelude to a dynamic expansion 
>>of values. Different terms, same idea.
>>For whatever it's worth,
>>dmb
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
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>.
>_____________
>
>Shoot for the moon.  Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars.........
>.
>.
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Shoot for the moon.  Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars.........
.
. 