[MD] neener neener

[John Carl]

Yo Steve,


>  It
> now seems clear that you have rather defined intellect too narrowly
> when you restrict intellectual activity to "reflecting about
> reflecting."


Well, I don't look at the dictionary as the (heh-heh) definitive answer, but
its a big help when I'm confused, as you point out I am.  So the dictionary
defines intellect thusly:

the faculty of reasoning and understanding objectively, esp. with regard to
abstract or academic matters : he was a man of action rather than of
intellect.
*
*
*
*
Which seems to pretty much confirm Bo's assertion, if you wanna define
intellect as *objective reasoning,* then intellectualism is SOM.

However, with my newly evolved formulation, the 4th level that has been
labeled "intellectual" is one up on objective thinking because it's analytic
of objectivity.  My formulation puts objective thinking on the THIRD level,
not the fourth.  Think about it.  Any "object" must be necessarily defined
by a subject.  S/O consciousness then arises any time there is any sort of
social relationship.  In order to have a social pattern, there MUST be a
self and an "other" in patterned relationship to each other.  Thus the
mindset we call SOM has its arisal and being on the 3rd level rather than
the 4th.

Stepping back and analyzing this S/O consciousness leads to transcendant
realization that such S/O thinking is NOT fundamental to reality and this is
the beginning of the 4th level, maybe more accurately labeled "the wisdom
level".

*
*



> Pirsig uses intellect as "simply thinking" rather than
> "thinking about thinking." Thinking about thinking is philosophy, the
> high country of the mind, and one brand of philosophy is metaphysics,
> so it now makes sense that you could think that metaphysics as first
> philosophy is the gateway to intellect.




Yes!  In fact, I remember yesterday as this was rolling around in my brain
as I was driving, I thought of naming the 4th level the "metaphysical"
level.  Or the "mystical".   The third level mental activity is concerning
the physical world around us and how to manipulate it, and the 4th is on the
metaphysical which contemplates manipulative thinking -  Thinking about
"thinking about".  The instant you engage in speculation about the rules
guiding the physical, you're into the 4th.

Therefore, as you say, Metaphysics is the gateway to the 4th.


> This is one of the same
> mistakes (one of several) that Bo makes in defining the 4th level as
> the SOL. Suggesting that one must first engage in philosophical
> thought before one can participate in other intellectual patterns is
> backward. Philosophical thought is indeed rare, but everyone
> participates in intellectual patterns. One must first be able to think
> before thinking about thinking.
>
>

I don't know if Bo could buy into S/O being constrained by the 3rd level,
but if he could I think it would solve our conflict.

Needs work though.  I'll go drive some more and continue my mystic
contemplation of reality.

Thanks for the dialogue Steve!