[MD] Marsha's (s)OL

[plattholden at gmail.com]

On 13 Oct 2009 at 1:03, MarshaV wrote:

> 
> Platt,
> 
> Patterns are memories, customs, habits, rituals, interpretations, rules, and
> patterns of nature.  Rules of grammar and the rules of logic would be
> intellectual static patterns of value.  They are the rules to objectify and
> manipulate the concepts and symbols in the Intellectual Level.  RMP has said
> that the Intellectual patterns are those such as theology, science,
> philosophy and mathematics.  I understand patterns, in general, also to be
> ever-changing, interrelated, interconnected, relative and conceptually
> constructed.  The word 'process' was used because patterns are NOT
> independent, thing-in-themselves, but events and processes.  For me, the
> most important thing is that Quality is unpatterned experience and patterned
> experience. 
>  
>  
> Marsha 
> 

Marsha,

I'm still bothered by static patterns that are "ever-changing" and static 
symbols that "represent" processes. Seems everything is in a constant 
state of flux except such concepts as patterns, processes, symbols and 
changes. Others will brush aside my concern as simply the paradoxical 
nature of language. But I don't detect any allowance for change in 
Pirsig's basic metaphysical structure of the four static moral levels plus 
DQ. Grant one exception and the whole notion of constant change 
collapses. I agree that Quality (reality) consists of unpatterned and 
patterned experience. I believe, however, that some patterns of 
experience never change including those two components of  Quality 

Platt 


> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of
> plattholden at gmail.com
> Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 6:41 PM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] Marsha's (s)OL
> 
> On 12 Oct 2009 at 16:27, MarshaV wrote:
> 
> > I added my original post at the bottom of this one, but let me repeat,
> 'The
> > Intellectual Level is comprised of patterns that represent the process of
> > objectifying and manipulating abstract symbols: "Objectification is the
> > process by which abstract concepts are treated as if they were concrete
> > things or physical objects.  In this  
> > sense the term is synonym to reification."'  This is my description of the
> > patterns the inhabit the Intellectual level.  I do not agree that
> intellect
> > is "simply thinking". There is no 'simply thinking' within  the MoQ; there
> > is unpatterned experience (DQ) and patterned experience (sq = static
> > patterns of value).  
> 
> Hi Marsha,
> 
> I like this but have a couple of questions. When you say, "The 
> intellectual level is comprised of patterns that represent the process of 
> objectifying and manipulating abstract symbols, " I wonder what you 
> mean by "patterns" and "represent." Does "patterns" refer to 
> grammatical rules perhaps? Do the symbols employed in 
> communicating grammatical rules comprise what is doing the 
> "representing?" In other words, I'm trying to identify the patterns you 
> refer to at the beginning and the symbols that "represent the process."
> 
> Maybe this is a case of the snake swallowing its tail (strange loop) or the 
> impossibility of defining a symbolic (representative) system with other 
> symbols. Or maybe, and most likely, I'm making a mountain out of mole 
> hole. 
> 
> Anyway, your last line is classic. One for my keeper book.
> 
> Platt