[MD] Some historical perspective

[X Acto]

Mark,
After reading alot of Plato recently, the central theme seems 
to be the love of wisdom, it's craft, and inducing this love in others.

Truth, In most all of his early writings, is demonstrated as contextual.

Plato, in the Parminides, speaks about the forms, how they are of
the cave of society, he speaks of being free of the forms, Parmenides
retorts how the forms are needed for communication, for knowledge
that the only way to point to "the light" is to use the shadow of forms.

Aristotle, is the one who separated the craft of wisdom and the knowledge of truth
Truth lie in the concept of determining "that which is measurable, that it is measurable
and that which is not, is not"  

Aristotle and Plato had two different views of aporia, (that which brings confusion or puzzlement)
Plato's dialogs were meant to induce it, Aristotles meta physics began with a list
of common puzzlements and sought to determine which aporia to begin study with.


Arisitotle's axioms begin with the assumption of "substance" and laws of non contrarity
in an effort to dispel aporia.

Apearently Aristotle did'nt think "wisdom" was practicle

-Ron





 


----- Original Message ----
From: "mark_maxwell at talktalk.net" <mark_maxwell at talktalk.net>
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Sent: Thu, October 22, 2009 7:41:15 PM
Subject: Re: [MD] Some historical perspective


I was asked a couple of questions off-list that i wish to answer on-list because i found them interesting. squonk. 


X: You said: 
Nietzsche suggests that the sophists and the philosophers were playing a game to try and out-do each other in order to establish who could produce the best rhetoric. The philosophers hammered their opponents with a new rhetorical move: Truth. 

Very interesting way of putting it.

Was SOM born at this time or just truth?

 

Squonk: Hi X,

To answer your question straight, it would seem that Truth existed prior to SOM at this time.

It may be helpful to consider where Plato appropriated Truth from: Geometry (Pythagoras 570CE - 495CE).

Hegel (1770 - 1831) takes it tha
t ‘naked apes’ (a term coined by Desmond Morris in 1969 to describe the zoological situation of Humans in contemporary society) within social groups at this time did not experience themselves as individuals to anything like the degree we do today, if at all. This view seems to be inferred from the rhetoric of the period, for example Homer’s (850CD?) Iliad.

 

X: When did truth become divorced from quality?

Or was truth originally conceived as independent of quality? 

Best, 
X.




Squonk: I’m not sure Truth ever did become divorced from quality.

Truth is an expression of the beauty between symbolic relationships.



All the best,

squonk



X: You said: 
Nietzsche suggests that=2
0the sophists and the philosophers were playing a game to try and out-do each other in order to establish who could produce the best rhetoric. The philosophers hammered their opponents with a new rhetorical move: Truth. 

Very interesting way of putting it.

Was SOM born at this time or just truth?

 

Squonk: Hi X,

To answer your question straight, it would seem that Truth existed prior to SOM at this time.

It may be helpful to consider where Plato appropriated Truth from: Geometry (Pythagoras 570CE - 495CE).

Hegel (1770 - 1831) takes it that ‘naked apes’ (a term coined by Desmond Morris in 1969 to describe the zoological situation of Humans in contemporary society) within social groups at this time
  did not experience themselves as individuals to anything like the degree we do today, if at all. This view seems to be inferred from the rhetoric of the period, for example Homer’s (850CD?) Iliad.

 

X: When did truth become divorced from quality?

Or was truth originally conceived as independent of quality? 

Best, 
X.




Squonk: I’m not sure Truth ever did become divorced from quality.

Truth is an expression of the beauty between symbolic relationships.



All the best,

squonk

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