[MD] The relativity of the MoQ

[MarshaV]

Good Morning Jan,

Not kidding this time.  I believe you.  That's great.  Home-made bread is
wonderful.

I was determined to start baking my own bread, but I didn't stick to it.
And there was nobody but me to eat it all, and that wouldn't do.  I paint,
and know that that can be a very meditative experience, an experience where
thoughts of myself disappear.

Meditation for its own sake has had its own unique benefit. Vipassana.
Maybe? Something new lately, seeing though the cracks, but I don't want to
analyze it, for I'm afraid it might go away, or is not real.  I am not very
intelligent and far too fearful, in spite of my intellectual posturing, or
maybe quite stupid because of my intellectual posturing.

I I I I I I I I...  Far too much me...  

Silence is the place to be.


Marsha


 

-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of Jan-Anders
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 1:44 AM
To: moq_discuss at lists.moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] The relativity of the MoQ



Good Morning Marsha and all

The experience of making my own bread is meditation for me and can lead 
to experience of Ultimate Reality.

No kidding this time.

Jan-Anders

> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 08:48:12 -0400
> From: "MarshaV" <valkyr at att.net>
> To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
> Subject: Re: [MD] The relativity of the MoQ
> Message-ID: <000001ca2ef0$4f6b20d0$ee416270$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> Ham and Andre,
>
> I agree that meditation can lead to experiences of Ultimate Reality (DQ),
> and a few minute sip of such an experience can deeply alter the context of
> all experience.   
>
>
> Marsha 
>  
>  
>  
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of Andre Broersen
> Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 7:56 AM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] The relativity of the MoQ
>
> Ham to Andre, Ron, Platt, Marsha, and All --:
>
> >From then on, the discussion disintegrated into an argument
> over social polemics.
>
> Andre (the dreamer)
> Couldn't agree more Ham, that's when I got distracted.
>
> Ham:
> What is also undeniable, but missed in the dialectics, is that the split
> between "ultimate reality" and "experienced reality" is absolute.  That
is,
> we cannot transport ourselves from an objective, relational world to
> metaphysical 'Oneness' by intellect, faith, or some mystic Sutra.  The
> division is existentially insurmountable. So that what we do in our
> "culture" or politics has no bearing on ultimate reality.  (Sorry Platt
and
> Andre.)
>
> Andre:
> No need to apologise Ham. Just a few thoughts on this. I do not believe
that
> the split (as you call it) between 'ultimate r' and 'experienced r' is
> necessarily absolute or remains absolute. We are still in the process
> of evolution. In this sense we are not human 'being' but human 'becoming'.
> And perhaps even the adjective 'human' will, one moon, disappear.
>
> 'We' have only been around for a few thousand years and have not evolved
> beyond the biological/ social and intellectual...yet. We still need
> nourishments and rely on sexual reproduction. We still need eachother and
as
> our knowledge, through the resolution of paradoxes continues to deepen,
our
> level of consciousness (or perhaps the quality thereof) may be measured in
> relation to these.
>
> But many, many people have experienced 'states' beyond the organic/social
> and intellectual. Near Death Experiencers for one and meditative (and drug
> induced) processes point to experiences that, to me, reduces/nullifies the
> absoluteness of the split you talk about.
>
> Maybe we are evolving toward one consciousness, who knows? I wouldn't
> foreclose on anything.
>
> All these so called 'mystical' experiences are simply too numerous to be
> mere subjective aberations. Within the MoQ these experiences are real. And
> they all lead to one conclusion.
>
> It seems to me Ham that we are perhaps not so far apart in our thinking.
> (imho) sometimes the language we use is awkward and I do not understand
half
> your language.
> Don't start proselytising though, I'll stick to quality... and, you may
> consider the above a whole heap of bull anyway.
>
> Cheers
> Andre (continues the dream).
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