[MD] Uncertainty

[MarshaV]

Ian,

I can understand where the "gods-eye view" would be uncomfortable. 


Marsha
    




-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of Ian Glendinning
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 4:55 AM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] Uncertainty

I'm also comfortable with that Marsha
... the ineffability, beyond the S/O intellectual linguistic process.

So if anything the MOQ separation perspective is on another layer /
level - maybe in a different "dimension". I've suggested that to Bo
before.

(What makes me nervous about Bo's take is that it is maybe seen as the
fundamental "gods-eye" view. But I'm cool with it being the best
available level from which we have a viewpoint.)

Regards
Ian

On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 10:40 AM, MarshaV<valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>
> Greetings Ian,
>
> Hmmm.  I've mentioned this is more difficult because explaining it is an
> intellectual process, especially using a s/o language like English, and it
> is a struggle to find suitable words.  It is like that figure of the
> faces/2vases image, where suddenly there it is!!!  It's one minute self
and
> objects, the next it's ever-changing, interconnected process/experience.
> Not just different words like the previous sentence, but a very different
> experience. I really am frightened to talk about this.  I am not an
> enlightened one, but a novice in the newest sense of the word.  It is sips
> of unpatterned experience.  God, and I can just hear Krimel's response
> 'AwGee!'.
>
>
> Marsha
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of Ian
Glendinning
> Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 4:12 AM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] Uncertainty
>
> Hi Marsha,
>
> You said
>>
>> As far as what is beyond all patterns, DQ or Ultimate Reality?  I am
quite
>> comfortable with indivisible, undefinable and unknowable, and the
>> possibility of the creation of a better pattern always available.
>>
> I say. Me too. (Effectively defining "real" as nothing that exists in
> itself other than that ultimate reality.)
>
> I also agree with "most" of what Bo says (leaving science aside for
> now), so I would like to ask you to clarify one point where you also
> agree with him. You are focussing on the patterns and not the
> evolutionary aspects, although we agree the social to intellectual (as
> S/O) split arose with the Greeks, and you said
>>
>> Intellectual Level being the subject/object level, and the MoQ being a
> major
>> separation with the Intellectual Level representing a new level, a new
>> perspective.
>>
> This is the crux of where I have difficulty with Bo's SOL.
> You use the word "level" four times, but you say "the MoQ being a
> major separation", and then say "a new perspective".
>
> Where is this separation / perspective ? In what ? Of what ?
> Perhaps you could just elaborate / explain your "separation" point a
> little further. (with or without using the words level and/or pattern)
>
> Regards
> Ian
>
> On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 9:35 AM, MarshaV<valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>
>> Mati, Ham,
>>
>> I am flipping out with happiness,
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