[MD] The MOQ/Zen relationship.

[skutvik at online.no]

Marsha

15 Sep you wrote:

> I am happy to state I cannot possibly support your SOL thesis if it
> considers the Buddhist point-of-view irrelevant.  But as before I do
> agree with you on the three points:  1.) that the Intellectual Level
> is a subject/object level.  2.)  that the MoQ is better represented by
> a Quality(static(patterned experience)/Dynamic(unpatterned
> experience)) Level above the Intellectual Level, and 3.)  that the
> Intellectual Level was birthed at the time of Plato/Aristotle&Company
> with the rational/irrational split.  (Although I am becoming
> increasingly convinced that the rational/irrational split was a
> trumped up fallacy.)   

Your agreements are much appreciated and covers the SOL 
completely. Regarding my "saving the MOQ from Zen" I've tried 
various ways of conveying my approach and this is my best entry. 

Applying the MOQ's level matrix, the concept "religion" as something 
mystic that ignores reason emerged after reason (SOM or the 
intellectual level). While the social level was leading edge people lived 
in (what intellect calls) a magical reality, everything was mystical and 
then nothing was mystical (the fish knows no water because it's totally 
immersed in it) 

Now I don my seven leagues boots. 

Intellect emerged in Greece (in the Western hemisphere) and its 
rationality was kind of adapted by the Romans who - even if they had 
gods - developed many intellect-based institution and  I think it was 
around this time that the term "religion" was coined, mainly about the 
monotheism myth  in the Roman province Judea. When intellect 
returned in force after the Middle Ages the secular/religious distinction 
was constantly more deep, i.e. religion became something subjective, 
private and - um - "mystic". 

The MOQ however changes everything by superimposing its DQ/SQ 
over it all  thereby relegating the religious/secular distinction to its 
intellectual level with no "jurisdiction" outside it and is why I am 
reluctant to associate the MOQ with Zen which is associated with 
"religion"  and/or "mysticism" in the Western hemisphere and then 
MOQ is caught in the S/O it is supposed to be an escape from. . But I 
may be wrong as Platt says.

Bodvar