[MD] The MOQ/Zen relationship.

[John Carl]

Apropos Kerouac Quote:
Spengler did not comprehend Tao; it was in his nature not to.

from Some of the Dharma



On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 10:00 PM, markhsmit <markhsmit at aol.com> wrote:

> Hi Marsha,
> I think Bo has an attitude about Eastern thought.
> It won't do any good to try to convince him otherwise.
>
> I'm glad to see that others have a few more dimensions
> to their travels through the high country.
>
> Cheers,
> Willblake2
>
> On Sep 22, 2009, at 3:11:19 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
> From:   MarshaV <valkyr at att.net>
> Subject:    Re: [MD] The MOQ/Zen relationship.
> Date:   September 22, 2009 3:11:19 AM PDT
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>
> Bo,
>
> It seems to me the Buddhist use intellect and meditation of penetrate the
> illusionary nature of self (subject) and phenomenon (objects). That is
> moving beyond a subject/object world-view.
>
>
> Marsha
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of MarshaV
> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:31 AM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] The MOQ/Zen relationship.
>
>
> Greetings Bo,
>
> So the MoQ is a metaphysics appropriate for the Western experience only? Is
> that what you are stating?
>
>
> Marsha
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of
> skutvik at online.no
> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:07 AM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] The MOQ/Zen relationship.
>
> Marsha and Group
>
> 21 Sep. you wrote:
>
> > I certainly understand you wanting to keep religion separate, and it
> > does seem the mystic experience is often linked to religious
> > traditions, but it doesn't have to be so. I've read that even the
> > Dalai Lama, in his efforts to bring together East and West, has warned
> > to be attentive to what is insight/wisdom and what is cultural
> > tradition, which are often entangled. The Buddhist traditions are
> > beneficial because they are not theistic, and their purpose is to
> > bring enlightenment (however that word may be understood or
> > misunderstood) to benefit all.
>
> I started my post by saying that religion as something defying reason
> only occurred after "reason" i.e. the intellectual level. And I'm afraid
> this your introducing Dalai Lama brings MOQ into the murky Buddhist
> waters I want to "save it from" - sorry for being so implacable. He
> speaks about "insight-wisdom versus cultural tradition, and "insight-
> wisdom" may match "what defies reason" but "cultural tradition" in
> Tibet is not our Western REASON.
>
> Tibetan cultural tradition was/is all about achieving the mystical
> experience while Western Reason is all about preventing such which
> is dismissed as hysteria, mental illness .. etc.
>
> Back to the MOQ. Before Reason - i.e. intellect - the social reality
> ruled and there was no S/O (mystic/reason) distinction (why it was
> regarded as Quality itself by Pirsig) Yet, the MOQ is not a return to the
> pre S/O (social reality) it's a reunion of Subject/Object beyond
> intellect.
> So, I do not particularly want to involve Orientalism because this may -
> as Pirsig and this discussion has touched on - be a culture that has
> gone through the intellectual stage, but not developed it into a SOM,
> before going on to a Quality-like stage.This creates OUR East/West
> chasm. Dalai Lama may understand the West, but we only sees
> "mysticism" over there.
>
> Yours profoundly
>
> Bodvar
>
>
>
>
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