[MD] [Bulk] Re: the universe is flat

[MarshaV]

Laugh, Jon, laugh...      



On Apr 24, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Jon Bennett wrote:

> MarshaV,
> 
> German philosophers inhabit every
> moq post. It's in the lineage, the background, the very DNA of moq.
> 
> But your'e right, there is an antidote! But it's not at all a pleasant
> process. You first have to go through the shock, stress and pain, of
> withdrawal and detox. Then you'll need to find a good moq anonymous meeting
> and attend faithfully.
> 
> Jon
> 
> On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 2:24 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
> 
>> Jon,
>> 
>> I'm sure somewhere there's an antidote for too many German philosophers
>> listed in a single post.
>> 
>> 
>> Marsha
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Apr 24, 2010, at 12:18 AM, Jon Bennett wrote:
>> 
>>> MarshaV, John, Ian and company,
>>> 
>>> At some point I want to discuss the archetypes of this, and the previous
>>> age.
>>> 
>>> If you've looked at the link I posted by Tarnas, you'll see that he
>> refers
>>> to a certain nexus of interrelated ideas that are behind each age. These
>> are
>>> the metaphysical roots that P speaks of, and each age has them.
>>> 
>>> The interesting thing is when you look at them closely, it is clear that
>>> these ideas were originally derived from ideas, or characteristics of
>> God.
>>> 
>>> This is most evident and easy to trace with Newton. He is constantly
>> saying
>>> space is absolute, eternal, and uniform, because God is. He was very
>> clear
>>> about this and intentionally thought this way as to understand how God
>>> worked in the world.
>>> 
>>> In any event, these ideas that were once thought of as aspects of God,
>> and
>>> in a specific tradition, become the archetypes, the core ideas of
>>> mechanistic physics.
>>> 
>>> Not only this, these same ideas are then imputed to all other realms of
>>> thought and cultural expression.
>>> 
>>> This is also true with modern physics. Ever read the Tao of Physics, or
>>> Capra's, The Turning Point. He shows meticulously how the ideas in
>> physics,
>>> classical and modern, were spread to other areas of thought.
>>> 
>>> In both cases, these archetypal ideas can be traced back to theology,
>> even
>>> in a secular or non religious age, or even once they take on new, non
>>> religious meanings.
>>> 
>>> The archetypes behind quantum physics and relativity and even complexity
>>> science like wise can be traced back to philosophy and theology. You can
>>> trace it back to when Hegel wanted to combine the ideas of the finite and
>>> the infinite, the Creator and the creation. This was an intentional move
>> by
>>> Hegel and other of the German Idealist philosophers that followed him,
>> and
>>> this influence was likewise felt on the Romantic poets.
>>> 
>>> I know this is but a broad outline, but Hegel and most of the Idealist
>>> philosophers were trained as theologians, and their philosophy
>> deliberately
>>> incorporated theological ideas, and these subsequently influenced the
>> course
>>> of science, as it did the whole of the culture.
>>> 
>>> Hegel's influence in this shift was the Greeks whom he idealized. And I
>>> believe you can trace the moq back to this turning point in Western
>> thought,
>>> which might be described as the easternization of the West.
>>> 
>>> There's an interesting chapter in Alan Blooms, The Closing of the
>> AMerican
>>> Mind, called the German connection, which also makes this connection with
>>> the sixties culture and high German philosophy. And there is also a
>>> connection of German philosophy with Eastern mysticism, as well as Greek
>>> thought. But the trend form Kant, Hegel, Schopenhauer, that leads to
>>> Nietzsche and then Heidegger, is the trend that Pirsig swims in. Did he
>> take
>>> it furhter than the rest, I'm not sure yet. But he is in this very same
>>> lineage which was begun by theologians considering the nature of God.
>>> 
>>> Jon
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 11:41 PM, John Carl <ridgecoyote at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> When you say "dropped" Marsha, I can take your meaning two differing
>> ways:
>>>> 
>>>> On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 8:59 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> I tend to agree that the terms God/Creator/Designer should be
>>>>> dropped as 'a relic of an evil social suppression of intellectual and
>>>>> Dynamic freedom.'
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> The first way of "dropped" is the way we drop a belief in Santa Claus as
>> we
>>>> grow older and more sophisticated.  An adult realization.  I dropped a
>>>> belief in Santa Claus when I was around ten.
>>>> 
>>>> The second possible meaning I can think of is dropped completely, like
>> not
>>>> even teaching kids about Santa Clause in the first place.  Expunging him
>>>> from our social memories.
>>>> 
>>>> Do you mean God should be dropped completely from the world's ideas? Or
>> do
>>>> you mean on an individual level where a child develops an idea of his
>> own
>>>> mind and worth by his/her overcoming the belief in God?
>>>> 
>>>> Or Santa Claus, for that matter.
>>>> 
>>>> If you get my question, let me know your answer, or if not one of these
>> two
>>>> interpretations, some other way of dropping God.
>>>> 
>>>> Like, "OOps.  I just dropped your God.  I hope He didn't break."
>>>> 
>>>> John the God breaker
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>> 
>> 
>> 
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