[MD] now it comes

[Krimel]

> [Mary] had said:
> The problem is not with the word 'static'.  The problem is with the
> word 'concepts'. The levels are not 'concepts'. 

[Krimel]
> All words are concepts. Seriously, until you get this, you are just
> pissing in the wind.

[Bo]
Mary, does not deny the fact that words are concepts, she just says 
that the levels aren't concepts. I.e. that DMB's Jamesian "Dynamic 
Flux/Concepts" doesn't correspond to MOQ's "Dynamic/Static". 

[Krimel]
Not only is level a concept it is a concept that aids us in organizing other
concepts. It is a structural component of a conceptual schema. James breaks
it down into percepts and concepts. I agree with that. I also thing this
maps pretty well onto the static/dynamic split. Dave for unspecified reasons
resists equating dynamic flux with perception but he has been slowly moving
in the right direction just give him some more time.

[Bo]
Language is the sea we swim in and cannot be used as any 
metaphysical basics. 

[Krimel]
This is just a catch phrase for you. The fact that we are immersed in
language does not mean we can just ignore that fact; nor does it prevent us
from using language in philosophy and metaphysics. Neither would be possible
without language. In fact philosophy and metaphysics are just those parts of
the intellectual level which allow us to inquire into the nature and meaning
of language and into the nature and meaning of "nature" and "meaning."
Recursion, you see? That's' the meaning of "meta", BTW.

[Bo]
The same goes for "human beings". We can postulate a time before language
and a time before Homo Sapiens... 

[Krimel]
For that we can also look at the social and communicative behaviors of our
nearest relatives. 

[Bo]
...but not as a basic divide like DMB's "Everything not language/Language"
or SOM's "Everything not subjective/Subjective". 

[Krimel]
At least you are starting to see that there are lots of ways to carve up
metaphysical space.

[Bo]
All such ends in paradoxes: All is conveyed by language, the objective 
is contained in the subject.

[Krimel]
Recursion, reflection and feedback loops are not paradoxical.