[MD] MOQ Recursion

[Andre Broersen]

Bodvar to Arlo, Mary, Matt, All:

Arlo had asked.

> >  If it is not an inorganic or biological or social or intellectual
> >  pattern of value, what is it?
>    
"It" is probably the MOQ.

Andre:
So what is the MOQ then Bodvar if it is somehow different to an inorganic, biological, social or intellectual pattern of value?

Bodvar:
And Mary had replied

> >  A pattern of values is exactly that - a pattern of values.
>    
Which ought to be plain enough.

Andre:
Plain enough Bodvar? I do not think so...so help me: what is a pattern 
of value? Have you ever seen, felt, smelt, tasted or heard one?

Bodvar:
The inorganic level is just what it says: a level. What kind of nonsense 
is this?

Andre:
Bodvar, what is a 'level'? By the way, I am not being facetious...within 
the context of Arlo's questioning it is very important! See my 
questioning above?

Bodvar:
The MOQ is out of SOM...

Andre:
How can a metaphysics of Quality appear out of a metaphysics which does 
not recognize Quality?

Bodvar:

Arlo again:

> >  So then its a new level, above intellect, that "decribes" what the
> >  "inorganic level" itself is?
>    
The MOQ is the DQ/SQ metaphysics. Full stop!

Andre:
We all know this Bodvar but where is it and how is it (as a metaphysics!!!)??? Am I to feel it, see it, taste it, hear it, smell it?

Bodvar:
And that's just right. The intellectual level is sub-set of a sub-set inside the MOQ and can't see the totality, This has been the problem since Pirsig declared the impossible "MOQ and intellectual pattern"

Andre:
Sub-set of a sub-set? Explain!

The intellectual level can't 'see the totality' of what?

Bodvar:
The  MOQ is no "new level above intellect"...

Andre:

Where do you place 'intellect' Bodvar? At the intellectual level? Are you suggesting that 'intellect' is a SOM intellectual invention which makes it an (MOQ) intellectual PoV or something else?


Bodvar:
...it is the metaphysical system that CREATED the Q-levels

Andre:
How and where was this 'metaphysical system' created? (and don't tell me 'out of SOM' I would like something a bit more 'informed' Bodvar).

Bodvar:
The MOQ...is no pattern of the former SOM's mind,this is the source of all this nonsense.

Andre:
YOU clearly state that the MOQ is out of SOM (this is the basis of your SOL argument). Is, what you are saying then all nonsense? Or are you saying that 'we' are saying it? Also, be aware that in the MOQ 'mind' is a static intellectual pattern of value and not an entity on its own.

Bodvar:
Intellect does not describe the Q-inorganic LEVEL it describes its own material world!!!

Andre:
I thought that the 'material world' had been re-conceptualized as 'inorganic patterns of value'. What is 'intellect' doing in the MOQ as a descriptive factor?

Bodvar:
And I leave.

Andre:
On holidays again Bodvar? You lucky bastard!