[MD] MOQ Recursion

[skutvik at online.no]

Andre, what a surprise!

6 Aug.

Arlo had asked.
> > >  If it is not an inorganic or biological or social or intellectual
> > >  pattern of value, what is it?

I had decided not to get involved in this childish word-play, but for you 
my old sparring partner

Andre:
> So what is the MOQ then Bodvar if it is somehow different to an
> inorganic, biological, social or intellectual pattern of value?

The answer remains that it is the Quality Reality, and again this has 
nothing to do with the SOL, but could be directed to Pirsig or any one 
else. 

> Andre:
> How can a metaphysics of Quality appear out of a metaphysics which
> does not recognize Quality?

That's the same mystery as how life could emerge from the matter  
which does not "recognize" life, on the contrary seem to forbid it. The 
SOM-MOQ transition is just as unlikely yet like life emerged in its time 
the MOQ is now in the process of establishing itself  in spite of 
intellect-as-SOM's resistance  ... you are part of that resistance     
 
Bodvar before:
> > And that's just right. The intellectual level is sub-set of a sub-set
> > inside the MOQ and can't see the totality, This has been the problem
> > since Pirsig declared the impossible "MOQ and intellectual pattern"

Andre:
> Sub-set of a sub-set? Explain!

It's the "in-out-turn". In SOM's rule the MOQ was just another 
philosophical idea that resided inside what SOM called "intellect", i.e. 
mind. But the MOQ proved to be a cuckoo that devoured its host and 
established a Q-reality where SOM was made its 4th. level. DQ and 
SQ are the primary sets while the various levels are static sub-sets.  

> The intellectual level can't 'see the totality' of what?

Of the Quality Context, but having escaped intellect and seen the said 
context one may return to intellect and the static range without being 
oppressed by their myopia. You may  find some point to twist around 
here, but until further notice.    

Bodvar before:
> > The  MOQ is no "new level above intellect"...

Andre:
> Where do you place 'intellect' Bodvar? At the intellectual level? Are
> you suggesting that 'intellect' is a SOM intellectual invention which
> makes it an (MOQ) intellectual PoV or something else?

The "inside-out-turn" again that I tried (in vain) to explain to Arlo. The 
term "intellect" (to the weak interpreters) is the mental compartment 
that SOM call "mind" and from this perspective saying that the MOQ is 
"out of intellect" sounds like some 5th. level, but as said above: The 
MOQ has devoured the whole SOM and made its S/O distinction into 
its own intellectual level thus MOQ's 4th. level has nothing to do with 
SOM's "mind" and its 1st. level nothing to do with SOM's "matter".

Bodvar before:
> > The MOQ...is no pattern of the former SOM's mind,this is the source of
> > all this nonsense.

Andre:
> YOU clearly state that the MOQ is out of SOM (this is the basis of
> your SOL argument). Is, what you are saying then all nonsense? Or are
> you saying that 'we' are saying it? Also, be aware that in the MOQ
> 'mind' is a static intellectual pattern of value and not an entity on
> its own.

MOQ is out of the S/O Metaphysics - it rejects both  matter and mind - 
while the somists will insist that MOQ is out of "intellect" (in its somish 
mind-like capacity)  

Bodvar before:
> Intellect does not describe the Q-inorganic LEVEL it describes its own
> material world!!!

> Andre:
> I thought that the 'material world' had been re-conceptualized as
> 'inorganic patterns of value'. What is 'intellect' doing in the MOQ as
> a descriptive factor?

Reconceptualized? That sounds like DMB where static means 
conceptual. Anyway it is not SOM's "matter" that has changed its 
name to the "static inorganic value", the MOQ levels are created from 
the Quality Revolution.   


Bodvar