[MD] MOQ Recursion

[ARLO J BENSINGER JR]

[Bo]
I did not say that it (the MOQ) is a pattern of value, I'd say it is the
"Metaphysics of Value". OK? 

[Arlo]
If the Metaphysics of Quality is NOT a pattern of value (SQ) and NOT Dynamic
Quality itself (DQ), then you are in fact proposing a third metaphysical
category (Metaphysics) to the fold. 

[Bo]
All this is a small example of MOQ's explanatory power and I think it yields
megatons.

[Arlo]
Answering the question "What type of pattern of values is a rock?" And being
met with the rely "It's a pattern of values" is no answer at all. Its a cop-out
of the highest order. Don't misunderstand, I am fully of aware of why the
cop-out route is the only route possible if one wants to hold onto an belief
that, when examined, yields nonsense.

According to Pirsig's metaphysics, there are inorganic, biological, social and
intellectual patterns of value (and Dynamic Quality). When I ask "what type of
pov is a rock?", one should be able to answering this according to these
metaphysical categories.

Asking "what type of pattern of value is 'the inorganic level' itself?" is no
different, except in that its a question that exposes your entire "thesis" as a
fraud. This is why Mary can't answer, and you and Marsha struggle to put up new
metaphysical categories that posit a world made up of
DQ/SQ/Levels-Labels-Metaphysics. (I'll get to that more in a bit, believe me).

[Arlo had asked]
So the "levels" are NOT patterns of value at all? You are saying that,
according to the MOQ, there is DQ/SQ/Levels?

[Bo]
The levels are MOQ's classification of static quality. DQ/SQ level? 

[Arlo]
A new level then? The "levels" are a pattern of value of this new level above
intellect, is that right?

So we'll addend Pirsig's MOQ again, and say there are FIVE levels of "patterns
of value": inorganic, biological, social, intellectual, Metaphysical.

This is what you are suggesting, is that right?

[Bo]
The MOQ isn't above its levels, it contains the levels. 

[Arlo]
To clarify, you do not think the Metaphysics of Quality is a pattern of value
at all? But it is not DQ, and you've just said it is not SQ, so we are back to
the trinity of DQ/SQ/MOQ as metaphysical categories.

[Bo]
The MOQ is the Quality Reality. Period! 

[Arlo]
The Metaphysics of Quality is the Quality Reality? Again, like Marsha, here you
are confusing the undefined (Quality) with a definition (Metaphysics of
Quality). You are, in effect, making the Word into the God.

My guess is going to be that you do not see the Metaphysics of Quality as "an
analogy", even though a pivotal insight by the pre-hospitalized Phaedrus was
that "all this is just an analogy".

"Of course it’s an analogy. Everything is an analogy. But the dialecticians
don’t know that. That’s why the Chairman missed that statement of Socrates.
Phædrus has caught it and remembered it, because if Socrates hadn’t stated
it he wouldn’t have been telling the "Truth."" (ZMM)

Sounds to me, Bo, that you are repeating the mistake the Chairman had made.

[Bo]
A level is a MOQ classification of its static VALUE patterns.

[Arlo]
But is not itself a value pattern? So we are back to the third metaphysical
category.

[Bo]
Send that question to Robert Pirsig's representative DMB, it's not particularly
relevant for the SOL interpretation

[Arlo]
The damning things are usually aren't. But hey, I suppose you can build your
metaphysics by simply ignoring that which threatens your position if you want...

[Bo]
I think all these your word-traps stems from the self-defeating effort to
include language into metaphysics...

[Arlo]
Are you saying "language" is NOT a "pattern of value"?