[MD] MOQ Recursion

[Mary]

> [Arlo]
> What I want, Mary, is for you to tell me what YOU think they are. You
> said they
> were "patterns of value", a different stance than Bo's
> create-a-new-metaphysical-entity stance, so I am asking what type you
> think
> they are. Are they a new kind? Or one of Pirsig's categories?
> 
> [Mary]
> As discussed, of course they are!  I am not intending to be insulting,
> but feel
> compelled to say that this is the kindergarten understanding of the
> MoQ.
> 
> [Arlo]
> Okay, the "levels" are "intellectual patterns". If this was
> "kindergarten"
> stuff, one wonders why it took so long to get you to say this. But
> thank you.
> 
> We agree here.
> 

[Mary replies again]

No, we don't agree here.  This conversation is not possible.  To answer you
in an Intellectual Level context, they are Intellectual concepts.  It's the
context that is flawed.  It would be the same if we were discussing particle
physics.  If one of us was a priest trying to fit particle physics into a
religious framework and the other was trying to talk about it as understood
scientifically, what basis for conversation would we have?  Would any real
understanding be possible?

> May I assume you have no problem considering that the "intellectual
> level"
> itself is also an "intellectual pattern"?
> 
> [Mary]
> It is the way we all first come to know it; and, as we've all been
> saying in
> various ways again and again, it is an Intellectual 'description' of
> the
> MoQ-as-concept - not to be confused with Quality itself.
> 
> [Arlo]
> I am not the one confusing the Metaphysics of Quality with Quality
> itself, for
> that you need look no further than Bo. And YOU make this same confusion
> above.
> 

[Mary replies again]

I have no confusion at all.

[Arlo]
> To fix it, you should say... Its the way we first come to konw it; and,
> as
> we've all been saying in various ways again and again, the MOQ is an
> intellectual 'description' of Quality itself.
> 

[Mary replies again]

I have a question for you now.  How does equating Quality, Values, and
Morals with Intellectual concepts progress an understanding of the MOQ?  If,
as you say, the levels of Quality are Intellectual concepts, how does this
clarify what is meant by a pattern of values?  What makes this different
from a subject-object understanding?

Best,
Mary