[MD] MOQ Recursion

[Andre Broersen]

Bodvar to Andre:

Andre, what a surprise!

Andre:
Your innocence is disarming sometimes Bodvar.

Bodvar:
I had decided not to get involved in this childish word-play,...

Andre:
'Word-play' a 'childish' affair Bodvar? One can see archery as simply a sport or flower arrangement as a past-time for bored housewives, calligraphy as fancy lettering or motorcycle maintenance as a hobby.
Surely this depends on the values it seeks to reveal and the insights it seeks to communicate? I think, so far, the results of this 'childish play' have been very interesting.

Bodvar:
The answer remains that it is the Quality Reality, and again this has
nothing to do with the SOL, but could be directed to Pirsig or any one
else.

Andre:
So the MOQ IS the Quality Reality for you? The MOQ IS the 'undifferentiated aesthetic continuum', the Tao, the Void? That is: not what is written about it...but what...metaphysically 'experienced'?

Bodvar:
The SOM-MOQ transition is just as unlikely yet like life emerged in its time
the MOQ is now in the process of establishing itself  in spite of
intellect-as-SOM's resistance  ... you are part of that resistance

Andre:
If you follow the MOQ classification of the emergence of the levels then you are suggesting a level above the intellectual level. Since the four levels are all there is this gets very messy and therefore I resist. Of course you are forced into this because you have claimed the intellectual level as being capable of only SOL. I dispute this and many have gone before me disputing this. I would also suggest to you that the MOQ is NOT out of SOM. But I have suggested this before and you won't touch it with a ten foot pole.

Bodvar:
It's the "in-out-turn". In SOM's rule the MOQ was just another
philosophical idea that resided inside what SOM called "intellect", i.e.
mind. But the MOQ proved to be a cuckoo that devoured its host and
established a Q-reality where SOM was made its 4th.

Andre:
Let's unpack this Bodvar:

'In SOM's rule...'

What do you mean? Who or what ruled what or whom?

'...the MOQ was just another philosophical idea...'

Since we are talking MOQ wouldn't it be better to turn this upside down and say: from the MOQ perspective SOM was just a philosophical idea...the rational basis upon which it was founded has been found inadequate and therefore has been expanded to include... (much like Einstein's relativity as an expansion of Newton's theory?)

'...the MOQ...devoured its host'
  
Well, 'devour' is normally a biological function but at the intellectual level Pirsig has been at pains to make clear that the MOQ 'contradicts SOM's denial that value exists in the real world. The MOQ says it does. Thus the MOQ is an expansion of existing knowledge, not a denial of existing knowledge'(annot. 58). It has to do with the root expansion of rationality which Mr. Pirsig performed Bodvar.

Bodvar:

(Andre previously: The intellectual level can't 'see the totality' of what?)

Of the Quality Context, but having escaped intellect and seen the said
context one may return to intellect and the static range without being
oppressed by their myopia. You may  find some point to twist around
here, but until further notice.

Andre:
Well, I'll just nitpick: where do you escape to when you escape 'intellect' and from what point of view do you 'see'? From the biological level? Seriously Bodvar, do you mean when 'you' are (pre-intellectual), pure, direct experience...and return from there to 'the static range'...?

And then from there talk and communicate and write to others (e.g. in books) about this experience of the Quality Context? Is this what you mean by seeing 'the totality'?

Well, this is what Mr. Pirsig has given us Bodvar! Welcome to the MOQ!!!
  
And, let's be clear here: your Quality Context is already a static representation. Also remember that Mr. Pirsig, nor anyone who has had a, let's call it, 'enlightenment experience', not even the Buddha, talked about the CONTENT of this experience...it can only be represented statically, by analogy and then in such a way as to point the finger...because in pure experience all divisions dissolve.

(you may have 'seen' different parts of this Quality Context,[depending on what you value to make them fit your static analogues in your own 'life of quality'] but this MOQ is a discussion of Mr. Pirsig's 'testimony'. A static metaphysical testimony...a static intellectual pattern of quality.

All for now.