[MD] Interpretative hypocrisy

[Matt Kundert]

Thank you Platt for changing the subject line.  All I care about, all Steve cares about, is more self-consciousness about what denotes a "change of subject," such that if someone doesn't care to talk about something just now, they can save time by not wading through 60 posts entitled "Theocracy, Secularism, and Democracy" when they don't have much to do with that anymore.

> From: plattholden at gmail.com
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 09:42:27 -0400
> Subject: [MD] Interpretative hypocrisy
> 
> Hi Marsha,
> 
> Right. Another illustration of hypocrisy in condemning the SOL interpretation 
> of the MOQ because Pirsig does not support "SOM-as intellect." Nor does he 
> support an animals-included social level. Yet, that's OK. No need to separate 
> that opinion out by putting it in a separate thread so as not to offend those 
> who might disagree. 
> 
> Makes you wonder doesn't it?
> 
> Platt     
> 
> 
> 
> On 15 Aug 2010 at 3:43, MarshaV wrote:
> 
> 
> Greetings Dave,
> 
> You criticize Bo's point-of-view, yet from your other post you talk about 
> human animals and the evolution.  The MoQ is not about human 
> animals, but static patterns of value, and the evolution that the MoQ 
> references is the evolution of static patterns of value..
> 
> 
> Marsha  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Aug 14, 2010, at 6:41 PM, David Thomas wrote:
> 
> > Hi Platt,
> > 
> >> and not to other criticisms of Pirsig's positions, like the social level
> >> not being limited to humans.
> > 
> > Since I'm the purveyor of this travesty I would like to know, "Have you
> > honestly looked at and thought deeply about the issues I've raised?" Since
> > they have only occur to me just in the past few weeks after 15 years of
> > contemplation, I must say that I admire the awesome speed and power of your
> > intellect to discount the possibilities almost immediately. Wait, I forgot,
> > if you have a fixed position that's not so difficult at all. Nevermind!
> > 
> > The problems with Bo's position are:
> > 
> > 1. It has been discussed ad nauseam for 15 years and has oblivious logical
> > problems to which Bo responds with his smelly sock metaphor. This is
> > meaningless babble to almost everybody else, and I sometimes think, even to
> > him.
> > 2. His position is based on the Romantic/Classic split and diagram in ZaMM
> > which Pirsig rejected early in Lila as one of a series of bad openings he
> > tried and since abandoned.
> > 3. When asked for an opinion on the issue Pirsig very politely and
> > diplomatically indicated he saw little value in Bo's position.
> > 4. Pirsig to some extent helped in the confusion. Classic is synonymous with
> > SOM (classic philosophy out of Aristotle). If that is so, the next box down
> > should not be "intellectual" but at least two boxes labeled "idealism" and
> > "realism" or some such classifications to show the broad range of classic
> > positions. No intellectual box, no simple minded direct transfer.
> > 5.Bo's translation of R/C diagram into the MoQ is wrong headed at best and
> > just plain silly at worst. His translation places all romantic qualities on
> > the social level. Romantics maybe all about art, music, poetry, etc, but my
> > guess is that none would claim that they never use or do not have
> > intellects. Or that they are, and should be excluded from being
> > intellectuals. Shouldn't they just be sociable, happy, and keep dabbling in
> > that lower level DQ?
> > 6. If a trained profession logician were to diagram Bo's position (if
> > somehow he could understand it) it would yield so many logic errors
> > rendering it false, that the number infinity comes to mind.
> > 7. In his frantic effort to shore up or defend his position over the last 15
> > years he has rejected so much of Pirsig's MoQ that if his theory were to be
> > true only thing that would be left is the many acronyms of his position.
> > 
> > But as you say Platt, I could be wrong. But so could Bo. He's just not
> > willing to consider that possibility.
> > 
> > Dave
> 
> 
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