[MD] Hive mind, more fully explicated

[Dan Glover]

Hi John

Yay Lu!

I know I told you you in another thread, John, that I didn't want to
hear your insights. That's not exactly what I meant. I want to hear
your insights but as I said there we need some sense of commonality
otherwise the discussion is going nowhere. Here, that commonality is
the MOQ.

I don't want to hear Ed Abbey or Royce. I want to hear your voice,
John. But we have to focus carefully, otherwise we are just telling
each other stories (which is all wonderful and good too, in my
opinion, yet does little to advance the discussion so far as the MOQ
goes).

I agree with Lu. We all (most of us I presume anyway) read other
authors beside Robert Pirsig. And if what we read pertains to the MOQ
in some way, I find it worthwhile to share with others, sure. But it
can be overdone as well. Tell me what you think. I can read Abbey's
words. What does that tell me though?

I tend to dismiss the "hive mind" notion, John. Sorry. Seems a bit
melodramatic but that's just me. In the MOQ, social patterns of value
are likened to the Giant. I tend to believe that's what you are on
about in most of your posts, this one included. The Giant devours the
individual. The Giant is all around.

I feel much the same. I blew up my tv and threw away the paper years
ago. I don't follow the academic path. I sit for the most part and do
nothing. I work when I see something needs doing. When the work is
done I retire. Let others take the credit. It's okay.

Again though, if you want to discuss the MOQ, you really need to look
into it more deeply. Social patterns have nothing to do with
community, hive, or groups of individuals. Until you grasp that, then
we are just talking past each other.

Thanks

Dan

On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 8:57 PM, John Carl <ridgecoyote at gmail.com> wrote:
> Lu was pissed at me last night.  For the weirdest reason.  For something I
> wrote in the MoQ.
>
>
> I mean, she always gives me a pinch, a kick or a sour look when I use bad
> language.  But that's the way she's always been.  Her own parents called her
> "the blue-nose fairy" , to sorta encapsulate the look Lu has had from birth
> almost, hearing an off-color remark or language.  The look of "somebody just
> stuck a small turd under my nose."
>
>
> Life of the party, our Lu.
>
>
> Kidding honey. :-)
>
>
> Really.  :-)  :-)  :-)  (how many of these friggin' things do I need,
> anyway?;-)
>
>
> She's gotten a little looser with age, but she still gets mad at me if I say
> "fuck" or something near as bad, for which I WILL pay. (ouch)
>
>
> Just so you know what it costs me, when  I really do have an exclamatory
> point that just can't be made rhetorically, any other way.
>
>
>  dammit.
>
>
> But this time, she got pissed because I posted something she thought was
> really beautiful, and she got to the end of it and found out I didn't write
> it, Ed Abbey did.
>
> And she was mad.  Felt let down, I guess.  She said, "I could go read Ed
> Abbey, on my own"
>
>
> Which is true, she could.  But she doesn't, which is part of my point.  I
> mean, that yellow book has been next to her bed for at least ten years, and
> she'd never really perused a word of it.
>
>
> But still, her anger took me back a bit.
>
>
>
> I told her,  that if Ed Abbey says something exactly as it needs to be said
> at the time, I'd almost rather use HIS words than mine, because Ed's, you
> know, like a successful and revered and published writer.  And I'm,
>
> well, nothing.
>
>
> 'cept to Lu, of course.
>
>
> As to the anyone else,  only in metaphysical circles is "nothing"  a value.
> So,  while of course, glad to be here, thankyouverymuch, at the same time,
> yer well-come.
>
>
> But even though Lu bought my answer, I slept on it, and gave her another
> answer that was a bit deeper, in the morning and fully satisfied her, but it
> also helped me think this through more, because  I thought, I really should
> explain more carefully what I mean by "hive mind" and exactly how I think it
> should be dealt with - ithrough and through.
>
>
> It does arise from the central conceit, of an intellectual pattern having a
> virtual "life" of it's own.  In the same way a city, a cultural pattern
> devours and uses people, so does an intellectual pattern devour minds,
> through people.
>
>
> So this.
>
>
>  I have dealt with this before, on this list. what I mean by this
> low-quality, social pattern, that seems to rear its ugly head in human
> affairs, every so often, in an earlier post, under the lable "homotheism".
> Which nobody really appreciated much, I think because there's a kinda "homo"
> connotation that leads to prejudicial attitudes that have NO place in an
> intellectual forum.
>
>
> So in many ways, I really think "hive-mind" is the better term for what I
> think is the root of all  problems an intolerance of diversity. An
> un-appreciation for the varities of religious experience, the strong need to
> suppress and reject deviation.  The automatic exclusion or rejection  of
> other-that-is-different that you find in narcissistic minds, for instance.
>
>
> "machine-brained" is another good term for what I mean, but itself suffers
> from such meta-mechanical overtones, that it's not quite rich enough.
> Really, "hive-mind" is perfect.
>
>
> My particular concern is with the instantiation of this hive-mind, in a
> techno-programmed and reinforced way, today.  A very individualistic
> society, that takes care of everybody.  And it's easy to do, because
> everybody is centrally programmed to be the exact same, cool,
> independent-minded, individual, existential island.  See the irony?  The
> pathetic sadness?
>
>
> Imagine for a minute, that my point might be true.  Imagine the intellectual
> patterns-that-be, running tests to understand the depths of social control.
> What if they can get the most individual and cool people, those most outside
> the traps  of suburban normality,  to stick metal through their sensitive
> parts? All together, in the exact same ways?!
>
>
> Ok, I'm joking.  But you have to admit, it'd be an amusing to find out how
> non-avant the garde really is.    I mean, if you can overcome biological
> good sense, metaphysical manipulations should be a breeze.
>
>
> I mean after all, Just what is a "self" in an age of "everybody's equal" and
> we all see the same shows, so we all know the same stuff?  What does
> 'individual' even mean, in such an age?,
>
>
> a coming age, an arriving age.  As plain as a wave on the horizon.
>
>
> Sneer all you fucking want, Dave's of both mb and Thomas, but with or
> without a tin foil hat, the cultural pattern I describe is as real as any
> historical brown-shirt fascist regime, and it's forming right before our
> very eyes. On and through tv.  Group conformity, hive mind is a real
> pattern.
>
>
> It doesn't like being challenged.  It doesn't like being discussed.  It
> worms its way into all public discourse, with it's lens of popularity and
> celebrity focusing on what feeds it the fastest (money)
>
>
> Every generation is tabula rasa.  The slate is wiped clean, ready for new
> programming.  Never before has mass technologically enhanced programming
> been so widely available.
>
>
> And sure, it could do a lot of good.  But the truth is, it's immense power
> is centralized.  There is some decision about what makes "Good" programming,
> going on at the highest levels, by the few, for the many.  And then new
> generations pop out of their pods, into the world they are offered.
>
>
> Hive-mind seeks peace.
>
> Hive mind seeks growth and prospertity.
>
> Hive-mind seeks all that seems good, and right, with equality and justice
> for all.  And this is achievable, as long as we have One Good Queen, and
> perfect communication to her subjects, along paths of electronic and
> absolute control.
>
>
> I think PD Ouspensky was right.  I think the danger of Hive-mind is far
> greater than any can imagine.  All the more terrifying because of it's
> horrible inevitability.  It holds the threat of nuclear sword, over the head
> of humanity on earth. How much more inevitable can you get?
>
>
> Fuck it.  where do I sign up?  I wanna be a drone.  I'm sorry.  I apologize
> for thinking my own thoughts.  From now on, I'll listen to every single
> word, sent from the source, and be a busy worker bee. I promise.  Ok?
>
>
> Right.  That's not gonna happen.
>
>
>
> yippy?.  yappy?
>
>
> yip.
>
>
> John
>
>
> PS:
>
>
> And I'm sorry I had to say "fuck it" lu.
>
>
> Ouch.
>
>
> And again.
>
>
> What am I?
>
>
> Some kinda masochist or something?
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