[MD] Social level for humans only

[Andre Broersen]

Magnus:
According to you, it seems I can only experience inorganic and 
biological events. But that's just not true. I can experience social and 
intellectual events as well.

Andre
I am going to blow this up a bit Magnus, if you do not mind, because I 
have noticed this over and over again with interpretations that have 
nothing to do with the MOQ and everything to do with the idea of trying 
to 'frame' someone for 'trapping' someone into a particular way of 
reduction.
Of course you experience social and intellectual events! I thought we 
are talking MOQ stuff here and not 'tripping eachother up' in SOM land..

Magnus (previously):

Anthony has mistaken the int-soc border with the soc-bio border.It isthe social value that makes ants carry all that food and other stuff to  the hill, if each ant was ruled by its biological values, he would run  off and care only for himself.

Andre (previously) in response:  With all due respect it seems you have a very narrow idea about
biological patterns of value.

Magnus: Why's that? Do you think:

Andre:
No I do not for one minute think that: 'since Magnus thinks...' I get the impression that since cooperation and caring behaviours are displayed at the organic level that YOU think they are social quality displays. I am simply pointing out that they belong to the organic level. The social level may have copied and imitated some of those values because they were regarded as useful but they do belong at the organic level, from an organic point of view.

Magnus:
And what is the meaning of reality? Not sure that's a "meaningful" question.

Andre:
It is as meaningful as saying:'42'. It is not this, not that'. The question of 'meaning' immediately drives us into the intellectual level and that,will give us only provisional answers. ( think of the Buddhist concept of 'suffering'...Gautama was no fool).

Magnus:
And I provided just one of the contradictions that doesn't work in my
last post, but I see you conveniently failed to include that (the 1, 2,
3 chain of reasoning). May I ask why?

Andre:
Your 1,2,3, chain of reasoning to which I 'failed' to respond:

Here they come:
1. The MoQ is an intellectual pattern, right? Even Pirsig has said that when confronted with one of Bo's ideas.

Andre:
I do not think that Pirsig felt 'confronted' by Bo. The MOQ IS an intellectual POV. Bodvar felt unsupported and let down by Mr. Pirsig himself because Bo's interpretation of the quality thing was different to Pirsig's Quality thing.

2. You, me, Horse and most others here on MD can remember large parts of
the MoQ in our heads. We don't go and open the book every time we want
to check something.

Andre:
Most definately, it must be somewhere...reinvented every day...I am sure the in(organic) PATTERNS that we call 'brains' have something to do with this.

3. 2. Implies that you, me, Horse and most others on MD are capable of
supporting intellectual patterns.

Andre:
Not sure what you mean by 'supporting'. Let's say that we have the capacity to 'tune-in' to those waves that we are talking about. Perhaps that may be a fruitful way of doing this: the 'brain' is the particle/wave converter of sounds, vision, taste, feeling, smell... into concepts, ideas etc , etc. all of which are accessible and retrievable within the static domain. It is an intellectual way of experiencing?

Magnus:
To me, it only reinforces my view that intellectual patterns are stored
using the language of his brain. The language of his brain may be
slightly different from others, but since he's dead, the language, and
with it, also the contents are gone.

Andre:
This I find incomprehensible. '...stored using the language of his brain'?? The brain, as an in(organic) pattern of value does not store anything Magnus. The pattern performs a function, neither of the two are 'it', an 'entity'. All is a continuous flow... brilliant!

I think I have responded to all of your posts directed at me, Magnus, but if I have left anything out please let me know.