[MD] Social level for humans only

[David Thomas]

Andrie, Krimel, All,

And this all ties in quite nicely with the section of Chalmers I'm reading.
He is making the point that in trying to understand how "consciousness"
might emerge and/or work that thinking at the level of the brain split into
self/other, inside/outside, subject/object is way, way, too coarse of a
distinction to understand cognitive processes of interrelationships and
dependencies. Hence the reason why SOM was doomed to failure from the start.

Dave


On 8/27/10 11:15 AM, "ADRIE KINTZIGER" <parser666 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yep, Krimel_o,probably it passed by the MoQ-ers eye's some time ago,
> But in an interaction with Arlo , i launched a link once , some time ago,
> about intellect in
> Cephalopods , Squids so to speak, the complete group;..to provide some
> evidence of my earlier statement that
> the intellect in animals differs from zero--
> In that specific link, one was able to read  that the brain of some squids
> is different from other brains , in so far , that
> parts of the neural network , part of the brain, part of the neural cell's
> are in fact residing in the arms of the cephalopods.
> Strangely they seem to be there as stand alone entity's.
> But of course , this only appears to be so.
> nobody knows until today what the function is of this differentiated neurons
> in the arms, but if they are having a mirror function for
> touch and recognition, then this points out towards intellect outside of the
> brain..try to imagine the implications.
> 
> cephalopods owning a handshake verification-protokol that exchanges info ,
> like a personal area network., interacting with other ceph....
> good , aint it?
> And BTW, newly discovered is always controversial, as Darwin found out , in
> evolution.
> 
> If i stumble upon the link again i will relaunch it.
> 
> 
> 2010/8/27 Krimel <Krimel at krimel.com>
> 
>> Dave and Adrie,
>> Mirror neurons are new and slightly controversial but it is an
>> extraordinarily interesting idea. It helps explain for example empathy and
>> how 30 min. old newborns can imitate adult facial expressions. They
>> highlight several problems that have been kicking around the MoQ lately as
>> well.
>> 
>> First is the idea that consciousness is king. Mirror neurons are yet
>> another
>> example of a non-conscious process taking place outside of awareness and
>> yet
>> heavily influence both our behavior and our "attitudes".
>> 
>> A second interesting point is that they show how memory and conscious
>> processes are not just restricted to the brain. As James points out the
>> whole body is involved. Our memories are not recorded simply as sight and
>> sound but as physical sensation and emotional commitments.
>> 
>> Krimel
>> --------------------------------------
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: David Thomas [mailto:combinedefforts at earthlink.net]
>> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 11:33 AM
>> To: MoQ
>> Subject: Re: [MD] Social level for humans only
>> 
>> On 8/27/10 10:04 AM, "ADRIE KINTZIGER" <parser666 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> [Adrie said]
>>> There is a lot to find i think on wiki-- The triggering switches are
>> called
>>> "mirror neurons"
>>> It is still terra incognita for most part, everybody seems to have this
>>> mirror neurons, they fire simultaniously
>>> and fast if a behaviour is observed.i  was aware of it briefly.
>> 
>> Yeah this is a nice piece on the implications which correlates quite nicely
>> with my theory that "designing" may have been as or more fundamental in
>> intellectual development as language.
>> 
>> http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/ramachandran/ramachandran_index.html
>> 
>> Dave
>> 
>> 
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> 
>