[MD] Philosophy and Abstraction

[MarshaV]

Mark,

Pardon for the interruption, but I have been considering how one is 
encouraged to turn intellectualizing about Quality into the direct 
experience of Quality.  

Marsha  




On Dec 1, 2010, at 4:33 PM, 118 wrote:

> Hi John,
> Neo-Hegelian sounds cool to me.  I do respect Hegel as a brilliant man.  So
> long as it is not neo-conservative...  Maybe I'll look it up.
> 
> I don't know if it is verboten.  We all speak of sensing dynamic quality.
> The question is, where does that occur?  If our wordy consciousness is
> somehow one step removed, then what is happening right at this moment?  It
> would imply that there is no direct experience within our thoughts, which
> doesn't ring true to me.  I think the attempt is to qualify and quantify it.
> If it is something that we are not aware of, but can only theorize about,
> then this whole radical empiricism falls apart.
> 
> Certainly we can use words like "mystical experience" as some kind of
> objective reality which is somewhere else.  But as I have said before (and
> you agreed with, thanks) this whole thing is a mystical experience.  How can
> we describe it otherwise.  Preaching to the converted, I know.  It would
> seem that some are using the wrong side of Occam's razor, or using it in
> reverse.
> 
> So, back to dynamic quality.  It is right now, can't be anywhere else.  What
> do we do with it?  That is the question.  How do we spread the word to stop
> all this insanity?  How do we encourage good choices?  Unless people believe
> in it, they will not follow.  All this contusion into tying philosophies
> together is great for the philosopher, but what about those others.  ZMM had
> a way; I experienced it in the '70s; everybody got it.  What happened?  I
> think Pirsig was enamored with his fame and following, and the academics go
> ahold of it.  What happened to the book on American Indians he was going to
> write?  But, now I sound like a broken record, Quality is now...Quality is
> now...Quality is now...
> 
> Ouch, that burned!
> Mark
> 
> On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 11:14 PM, John Carl <ridgecoyote at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Matt and Mark,
>> 
>> sounds to me like you guys are flirting around the area of "neo-hegelian"
>> verboten territory.  Bad!  Naughty!  Mustn't!
>> dave doesn't approve.
>> 
>> According to my thinking, experiencing an abstraction is just about the
>> most
>> direct experience there can be. Neurons have a language too, ya know.  If
>> people would just sit on a hot stove  just a little  longer than normal,
>> maybe they'd learn something beyond a parrot-like reactionism.
>> 
>> John



 
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