[MD] Stuck on a Torn Slot

[118]

Hi Horse,

Rape and murder are only biological acts as seen from the intellectual
level.  This is an artificial analogy.  We cannot claim truth within
that paradigm.  It is impossible to point towards the biological for
an intellectual concept, they are at different levels.  This is what I
am trying to say.  If you create a linear relationship, then you are
resorting to Western Truth, which is what Quality is opposed to.  The
point is to follow Phaedrus away from that.

Thanks,
Mark

On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 4:13 AM, Horse <horse at darkstar.uk.net> wrote:
> Hi Craig
> Point taken, although the point I was making was that a house can be seen in
> a number of ways whereas a nest (or similar) is much more limited in it's
> purpose. I think that what we might say here is that the process of building
> a house is social and the purposes of a house _include_ staying warm and
> protected from the elements. Other purposes can include having friends over,
> sleeping safely, making music etc.
> In the same way, a concept is different to an act, as I was pointing out to
> Mark. First the concept that rape and murder is/are wrong (intellectual),
> then translation into laws against rape and murder (social), then punishment
> for committing the acts of rape and murder. OK, there's more to it than that
> (enough to fill a number of books) - but you get the general idea. Concepts,
> laws and acts are different and exist at different levels. Rape and murder
> are biological acts or patterns while laws against them are social patterns,
> and the concept of rape and murder is intellectual etc.
> That animals don't rape and murder doesn't mean that humans don't either and
> that the acts of rape and murder are biological not social or intellectual.
>
> Horse
>
> On 04/12/2010 03:21, craigerb at comcast.net wrote:
>>
>> [Horse]
>>>
>>> The building of a house or group of houses would be a social pattern, as
>>> per human social behaviour to stay warm and protected - the building of
>>> nests, as per avian behaviour is to provide a place to lay eggs etc.
>>
>> [Craig, previously]
>>>
>>> Nope.  IMHO this misses Pirsig's insight into the social level.
>>> Just as a beehive or network of prairie dog burrows is not a social level
>>> pattern,
>>> building a house or group of houses is not a social pattern, even if done
>>> in co-operation with other humans.
>>> Nor is human behaviour to stay warm and protected social, rather than
>>> biological.
>>> Only the building of a social institution should count as social, e.g.,
>>> ownership laws, legal liability, etc.
>>
>> [Horse]
>>>
>>> As far as I'm aware bees and prairie dogs don't EMPLOY ARCHITECTS,
>>> obtain BUILDING PERMISSION, EMPLOY bricklayers, plumbers etc.
>>> Building a house or the construction of a housing estate here in the UK
>>> involves all of this and is part of a social pattern.
>>
>> Which you'll recognize was MY point, as opposed to keeping warm&
>>  protected,
>>  which is biological&  not social.
>> Craig
>
> --
>
> "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production
> deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid."
> — Frank Zappa
>
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