[MD] Stuck on a Torn Slot

[Horse]

Hi Craig
Point taken, although the point I was making was that a house can be 
seen in a number of ways whereas a nest (or similar) is much more 
limited in it's purpose. I think that what we might say here is that the 
process of building a house is social and the purposes of a house 
_include_ staying warm and protected from the elements. Other purposes 
can include having friends over, sleeping safely, making music etc.
In the same way, a concept is different to an act, as I was pointing out 
to Mark. First the concept that rape and murder is/are wrong 
(intellectual), then translation into laws against rape and murder 
(social), then punishment for committing the acts of rape and murder. 
OK, there's more to it than that (enough to fill a number of books) - 
but you get the general idea. Concepts, laws and acts are different and 
exist at different levels. Rape and murder are biological acts or 
patterns while laws against them are social patterns, and the concept of 
rape and murder is intellectual etc.
That animals don't rape and murder doesn't mean that humans don't either 
and that the acts of rape and murder are biological not social or 
intellectual.

Horse

On 04/12/2010 03:21, craigerb at comcast.net wrote:
> [Horse]
>> The building of a house or group of houses would be a social pattern, as
>> per human social behaviour to stay warm and protected - the building of nests, as per avian behaviour is to provide a place to lay eggs etc.
> [Craig, previously]
>> Nope.  IMHO this misses Pirsig's insight into the social level.
>> Just as a beehive or network of prairie dog burrows is not a social level pattern,
>> building a house or group of houses is not a social pattern, even if done in co-operation with other humans.
>> Nor is human behaviour to stay warm and protected social, rather than biological.
>> Only the building of a social institution should count as social, e.g., ownership laws, legal liability, etc.
> [Horse]
>> As far as I'm aware bees and prairie dogs don't EMPLOY ARCHITECTS,
>> obtain BUILDING PERMISSION, EMPLOY bricklayers, plumbers etc.
>> Building a house or the construction of a housing estate here in the UK involves all of this and is part of a social pattern.
> Which you'll recognize was MY point, as opposed to keeping warm&  protected,
>   which is biological&  not social.
> Craig

-- 

"Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid."
— Frank Zappa