[MD] Three Hot Stoves

[118]

Hi John, Dan,

On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 6:03 PM, Dan Glover <daneglover at gmail.com> wrote:

> You're framing this intellectually and logically but you're missing
> the Dynamic issues that RMP is attempting to bring to light with the
> hot stove analogy.
>
> All experience begins Dynamically... every moment. It is only later
> that we conceptualize it into meaningful experience. Granted, it
> happens so fast that we normally fail to even notice it happening. I
> think zen practice may help bring this Dynamic experience more into
> focus but I hesitate to say so on account of muddying the waters.
>
>>John:
>> Without conceptualization, there can be no experience.  The very essence of
>> experience is a realization of a something which requires a concept of some
>> kind.
>
> Dan:
> Disagree. Without conceptualization there is no intellectual
> experience but there can be experience before the intellectualization.
> That's what the hot stove analogy is all about!
>
[Mark]
I would still argue that the process of intellectualization is as
dynamic as it gets.  One cannot consider the act of
intellectualization to be anything other than the dynamic aspect of
Quality.  If we want to separate what intellectualization is, from
other parts of awareness we find that there is no boundary.  It is all
awareness.  It would seem that some may distinguish the parts that go
into a Martini, from the shaking (or stirring) or the final martini as
being something different, but is it?  This sense of a separate
compartment certainly glorifies the intellect as some divine thing,
but does not stand.  Intellects get together and create other things,
these intellects at work are also a form of dynamic quality.

One could say that the electricity going into a TV is somehow more
real than the picture coming out, but again I do not see the boundary
there.  We cannot look back at experience, the act of looking back is
experience in itself.  It would seem that there is a false boundary
between dynamic quality and the intellect.  Zen would deny such a
boundary.  The intellect in operation is part and parcel of DQ.  We
divide it up into SQ for the purposes of communication and societal
needs, but of course that division is artificial and used primarily
for imparting awareness, and cohesiveness.

I'm not sure who I am agreeing with here, perhaps I have once again
gone off on an irrelevant tangent.  If so, my apologies.

Just the opinion of an onion is I,
Mark

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