[MD] Three Hot Stoves

[118]

On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 7:39 PM, Dan Glover <daneglover at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dan:
>
> From LILA:
>
> "Dynamic Quality is the pre-intellectual cutting edge of reality, the
> source of all things, completely simple and always new."
>
> Dan comments:
>
> Please note that Robert Pirsig says that Dynamic Quality is
> "pre-intellectual", not intellectual. It is simple and always new
> (just in case John is reading).
>
>
>>Mark:
>> One could say that the electricity going into a TV is somehow more
>> real than the picture coming out, but again I do not see the boundary
>> there.  We cannot look back at experience, the act of looking back is
>> experience in itself.  It would seem that there is a false boundary
>> between dynamic quality and the intellect.  Zen would deny such a
>> boundary.  The intellect in operation is part and parcel of DQ.  We
>> divide it up into SQ for the purposes of communication and societal
>> needs, but of course that division is artificial and used primarily
>> for imparting awareness, and cohesiveness.
>>
>> I'm not sure who I am agreeing with here, perhaps I have once again
>> gone off on an irrelevant tangent.  If so, my apologies.
>
> Dan:
>
> Yes I would agree it is irrelevant in that this has nothing to do with the MOQ.
>
> Dan

[Mark asking for an explanation from Dan]
Yes, I am familiar with the quote from Pirsig concerning the
pre-intellectual.  So, let me ask you this: at what point does
something become intellectual?  There is firing of the nerves in the
brain which results in the arising of ideas, which are then converted
to words, and then subsequently through Broca's area are converted to
movements of the mouth which result in vocalization.  Which part of
that is the intellect?  Are the action potentials of the nerve, or the
subsequent release and travel of transmitters across the synaptic gap
considered to be the intellectual?  Each time a transmitter reaches a
receptor and causes a post synaptic depolarization it is a new event.
Each time a nerve fires it is a new event.  How do you define what is
a new event and one that is not.  How can anything in the moment be
anything but a new event?   How are you going to differentiate at
which point something is pre- or post- intellectual?  This begs a
little bit of definitions from you so that I can understand what you
mean.

Are we intellectually aware of how our mouths move when we speak?  Are
we intellectually aware of how thoughts are forming in our heads?
When we respond without intense thinking, is that intellectual?
Please provide more explanations of how you separate an intellectual
occurrence from any other occurrence.

In the precise instant that anything happens it is at the cutting
edge.  It cannot be otherwise.  This is Zen, this is living in the
present.  The idea that something we are currently thinking about is
not at the cutting edge but somehow removed, begs some questioning.
So we take Pirsig's quote, and relegate the intellect to something in
the past?  Is that what he means?  Is he somehow separating that when
we think we are separate from dynamic quality?  Wouldn't he be
creating a false divide there?  I think you are misinterpreting
Pirsig, I do not think that is what he meant.  But I could be wrong.

I would argue that by putting Dynamic Quality at the cutting edge of
reality, that is in the present moment, I am staying true to "THE" MoQ
(emphasis from your post).  You would argue that the intellect is
somehow removed from immediate reality.  I would like to hear you
explain this without resorting to quotes.  I am perfectly willing to
be wrong on this, but I need some explanation which goes  beyond the
derogatory.  By simply quoting something that you possibly do not
understand may be misleading to others, and we have a responsibility
here.  I still think that you understand MoQ, so please explain this
part.

Thanks,
Mark

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