[MD] The Mythos-Logos issue.

[Mary]

Ian?  What the ?

> 
> Mary ? What the ?
> 
> You said
> I'm just concerned to hear that the accepted view is now that ZMM and
> Lila were not inspired by an aversion to SOM.
> 
> That is precisely the accepted view as you knew, when you chose that
> piece of straw-man rhetoric. Bo's formulation places SOM as the
> highest static level of morality in the in the MoQ, despite that
> accepted view .... which he is entitled to do. What he is not entitled
> to do is to say it was Bob's idea that he do so and that Bob has
> agreed with him doing so.
> 
[Mary Replies] 
Ummm this is where we fail to communicate every time.  In fact, we fail to
communicate on this point so badly that Horse wants to throw Bo out of the
Discuss because of this misunderstanding.   No straw-man implied.  Just
saying what some of y'all say all the time - if not directly, then by
implication, or more correctly, consequence.  

Yes, The Intellectual Level is the highest static level.  Yes, SOM is what
caused Pirsig to suffer a breakdown.  He came to understand that even though
it is the highest STATIC level, it is not the Primary Empirical Reality of
the Universe.  That he ascribed to Quality - of which the Intellectual Level
and all the rest are but a static underling.  This insight was a relief to
him.  Had he not made it, he would likely have gone completely insane.  I am
not an intellectual level basher in the sense that Arlo would describe.
Neither is anyone else here.  _That_ would be a straw-man for sure.

I'm not a Social, Biological or Inorganic basher either.  All 4 are Quality.
All 4 are needed.  All 4 are moral - even when they refuse to value morals.


The Intellectual Level refuses to value two different kinds of morals.  It
doesn't value the Social Level ones, the kind we've all heard about in
churches, and it isn't even aware of the Quality kind of morals at all.
That is not in the Intellectual Level's frame of reference.  Morals with a
capital "M" are the Camaro in front of the cave man's hut.  The first kind
is just subjective.  The second kind doesn't exist period according to SOM.
I am saying to you it is more Moral to refuse to value Social Level morals
than it is to value them.  

The thing Pirsig wanted us to see was that even though the Intellectual
Level is the highest Static level now, it doesn't have to be that way
forever.  There is something better.  It is acceptance of Quality (Morals
with a big M) as the Primary Reality rather than Subs and Obs.  The
Intellectual Level can't deal with that and does not accept it, but that
doesn't make the Intellectual Level 'bad'.  Can't be bad.  It's the highest
Static Quality.  It's just that there are better Static Qualities to be had
than that.

That's all.

Best,
Mary