[MD] The Mythos-Logos issue.

[Ian Glendinning]

Mary, the elaboration and complication is simply not needed ...

You say it here
"Yes, The Intellectual Level is the highest static level.  Yes, SOM is what
caused Pirsig to suffer a breakdown.  He came to understand that ..."

Yes, Yes, Yes, no argument. And thus we all came to understand that
... agreed already (as I said already) .... that is NOT what the
dispute is about.

And Yes, in your own choice of two different words ... Intellect and
SOM are different things (one is part of the history of the other). Bo
is entitled to chose differently, but that is not what the dispute is
about either ..

He is just not entitled to say his idea is Pirsig's.
Ian

On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 10:04 AM, Mary <marysonthego at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ian?  What the ?
>
>>
>> Mary ? What the ?
>>
>> You said
>> I'm just concerned to hear that the accepted view is now that ZMM and
>> Lila were not inspired by an aversion to SOM.
>>
>> That is precisely the accepted view as you knew, when you chose that
>> piece of straw-man rhetoric. Bo's formulation places SOM as the
>> highest static level of morality in the in the MoQ, despite that
>> accepted view .... which he is entitled to do. What he is not entitled
>> to do is to say it was Bob's idea that he do so and that Bob has
>> agreed with him doing so.
>>
> [Mary Replies]
> Ummm this is where we fail to communicate every time.  In fact, we fail to
> communicate on this point so badly that Horse wants to throw Bo out of the
> Discuss because of this misunderstanding.   No straw-man implied.  Just
> saying what some of y'all say all the time - if not directly, then by
> implication, or more correctly, consequence.
>
> Yes, The Intellectual Level is the highest static level.  Yes, SOM is what
> caused Pirsig to suffer a breakdown.  He came to understand that even though
> it is the highest STATIC level, it is not the Primary Empirical Reality of
> the Universe.  That he ascribed to Quality - of which the Intellectual Level
> and all the rest are but a static underling.  This insight was a relief to
> him.  Had he not made it, he would likely have gone completely insane.  I am
> not an intellectual level basher in the sense that Arlo would describe.
> Neither is anyone else here.  _That_ would be a straw-man for sure.
>
> I'm not a Social, Biological or Inorganic basher either.  All 4 are Quality.
> All 4 are needed.  All 4 are moral - even when they refuse to value morals.
>
>
> The Intellectual Level refuses to value two different kinds of morals.  It
> doesn't value the Social Level ones, the kind we've all heard about in
> churches, and it isn't even aware of the Quality kind of morals at all.
> That is not in the Intellectual Level's frame of reference.  Morals with a
> capital "M" are the Camaro in front of the cave man's hut.  The first kind
> is just subjective.  The second kind doesn't exist period according to SOM.
> I am saying to you it is more Moral to refuse to value Social Level morals
> than it is to value them.
>
> The thing Pirsig wanted us to see was that even though the Intellectual
> Level is the highest Static level now, it doesn't have to be that way
> forever.  There is something better.  It is acceptance of Quality (Morals
> with a big M) as the Primary Reality rather than Subs and Obs.  The
> Intellectual Level can't deal with that and does not accept it, but that
> doesn't make the Intellectual Level 'bad'.  Can't be bad.  It's the highest
> Static Quality.  It's just that there are better Static Qualities to be had
> than that.
>
> That's all.
>
> Best,
> Mary
>
>
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