[MD] Decision

[Mary]

Hi Horse,

I imagine we'd all like to get off this subject, but I feel like it's
important to clarify one small thing.

[Horse]
The problem I have is with Bo claiming support from Pirsig, re: the
> SOL,
> when Pirsig has clearly stated that he does not support Bo's position.
> Also Bo claiming that Pirsig is, somehow the originator of a position
> that Pirsig specifically rejects.

It's with the also part.  You see, I _do_ think Pirsig himself was the
originator of this idea.  I'm not trying to be argumentative or perverse,
but this _is_ the way I see it.  Pirsig may not support it now, and that's
fine, but it's there in ZMM.  It's in the quotes I pushed out the other day
and many others I didn't but can.  I guarantee you I'm not smart enough to
have thought this up all by myself, and it is why Bo never claims it to be
his own personal idea either.  I can't speak for him, but I think Bo
genuinely sees it as straight out of ZMM and so do I.  That's why I was so
angered by the accusations of deception or lying and why I view this as a
form of censorship.  We can agree to disagree, but I still do.
 
Just wanted you to understand where I'm coming from.

Best,
Mary  

>   Hi Folks
> 
> Hmmm! OK - not sure where to start.
> Thanks for all the kind words and support and I'll try and make sense
> of
> all this.
> 
> I think most of you have understood my position and what I'm saying but
> I think there are still a few who haven't quite got the gist yet -
> probably my fault for not explaining it as well as I should have. Also
> there has been a certain amount of water-muddying going on (re:
> censorship etc.) and this probably hasn't helped either.
> 
> First let me say that I have no intention of removing Bo (or any of
> those that agree with his position) for interpreting the MoQ in the way
> he does, having a different slant on the intellectual level or for
> stating and arguing his position in this respect. I also don't have a
> problem with Bo (or anyone else for that matter) claiming that Pirsig
> is
> just plain wrong in what he says.
> 
> The problem I have is with Bo claiming support from Pirsig, re: the
> SOL,
> when Pirsig has clearly stated that he does not support Bo's position.
> Also Bo claiming that Pirsig is, somehow the originator of a position
> that Pirsig specifically rejects.
> For Bo and others to claim that Pirsig supports Bo's interpretation,
> given the evidence and quotations that exist is, to my mind dishonest
> and unreasonable. This is summed up very neatly by Arlo when he stated
> the following:
> 
> Bo's MOQ = the intellectual level IS SOM.
> Pirsig's MOQ = the intellectual level is NOT SOM.
> 
> If Bo, and those that support him, want to argue that SOM/SOL =
> Intellectual level and then use quotes from Lila and ZMM etc. to
> support
> their position then they are free to do so - I don't agree with this
> position and will say so when and where I see fit. But it needs to be
> made clear that this is a different interpretation to the one that
> Pirsig believes to be the case and stating or implying that this is
> 'really' Pirsigs position will not be tolerated. Pirsig has said that
> he
> doesn't believe Bo's position, with regard to the intellectual level,
> is
> correct and his position should be respected and not simply ignored.
> Even worse, with regard to SOM/SOL = Intellectual level is stating that
> Pirsig doesn't know what he means and others know better than Pirsig
> what Pirsig really means or thinks or that what he really said or meant
> to say  was...... etc. etc. Pirsig was quite clear about his position,
> he is entitled to be respected for this so don't state or imply that
> he's a fool or an idiot.
> 
> In summary, claiming the MoQ supports SOM/SOL = Intellectual level and
> quoting chunks from ZMM, Lila , SODV, Lila's Child etc. to support this
> position is acceptable. Claiming that Pirsig supports SOM/SOL =
> Intellectual level or that he originated this position or similar is
> not
> acceptable.
> 
> A couple of points as a final note.
> I think that it would be a good idea to allow newcomers to settle into
> the forum for a few weeks instead of, figuratively, leaping on them as
> soon as they are through the forum door and have their coats off and
> regale them with the MoQ according to Bo. This isn't a removal offence
> but it is certainly likely to get someone put on moderation if they are
> unable to contain themselves sufficiently well. Apart from anything
> else
> it's just plain bloody rude.
> I also think it would be a good idea that if an argument has gone on
> for
> a certain length of time or number of posts and is getting absolutely
> nowhere then I should and will call a time-out to all involved for a
> cooling off and reflection period. I will try and be polite and
> reasonable about this and will expect those involved to respect my
> decision, live with it and not give me a hard time about it or make
> stupid accusations.
> 
> If anyone is still unclear as to my position then say so and I'll try
> and sort it out.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> 
> Horse
> Moq_Discuss mailing list
> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> Archives:
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> http://moq.org/md/archives.html