[MD] Intellectual honesty

[Ian]

Still spot on Horse.
Ian

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 11, 2010, at 20:38, Horse <horse at darkstar.uk.net> wrote:

> Hi Steve, Dan, DMB, Ron, John, Matt, Platt and anyone else who's  
> interested
>
>
>
> On 11/07/2010 02:25, Steven Peterson wrote:
>> Steve:
>> If those supporting Horse's action don't think Bo ought to be banned
>> then I am as confused as Matt is about what administrative action we
>> are talking about here. I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah...I agree that Bo is
>> all these flavors of horrible (and probably also a pretty good guy),
>
> The impression I get is that no-one (myself included) wants to see  
> Bo removed from MD. Which is good - Bo is liked by many on the forum  
> and none of us want it to come to the point where Bo is removed. I  
> know I don't anyway. But what is required is that Bo stops repeating  
> what, for most, is the bleeding obvious. I.e. that Pirsig is either  
> the originator of the SOL or that he supports it in any way.
>
> As both yourself and Matt have pretty much stopped reading what Bo  
> posts to the forum (a luxury I don't have if I want to be a good  
> administrator/moderator) you may have missed a number of people  
> asking Bo to 'shut the fuck up' and to stop being, as many correctly  
> see it, intellectually dishonest.
>
>> but what specific administrative action are we talking about? Is  
>> it...
>>
>> 1) a new forum rule where anyone claiming that SOL is Pirsig's idea
>> risks being banned?
>
> Not a rule that will go on the website but a moderator request that  
> will have the same effect. See comments below.
>
>> 2) a administrative request that Bo shut the hell up about SOL for  
>> a while?
>
> Tried that - didn't work! See comments below.
> Also, please note that I'm not saying that there can be no  
> discussion of the SOL - just that it is not Pirsig's idea or  
> supported by Pirsig.
>
>> 3) a specific threat leveled at Bo that he will be banned if he in
>> particular continues to say that SOL was Pirsig's idea?
>
> Not banned - removed from the list. See below
>
>> 4) something else, like Bo will be banned if he continues to try to
>> woo every newbie that comes along by flattering them and telling them
>> about how they have blessedly managed to stumble upon the Great
>> Insight?
>
> See below.
>
>
> There are specific rules that relate to the forum which can be  
> viewed on moq.org and there are the general rules of any mailing  
> list which are that the list admin/moderator should keep some sort  
> of order, try and sort out member disputes and a whole bunch of  
> other admin/moderator type tasks. There is also a general rule that  
> the admin/moderators decision is final.
> So what options do I have as moderator if, after asking someone to  
> stop doing something or behaving in a way that I think is incorrect,  
> they refuse and carry on as if I had said nothing? As far as I can  
> see I have three choices:
>
> 1) Do nothing
> 2) Moderate each incoming post from the offending member and only  
> pass those that I think are suitable
> 3) Remove the member from the list
>
> If I do 1) I'm not doing my job properly, which I take seriously, so  
> that's not an option I would accept.
> If I do 2) I'll have have to spend ridiculous amounts of time not  
> only checking posts for inappropriate content but also having  
> arguments from all and sundry that whatever I do is wrong and  
> censorious and that I'm an evil jack-booted bastard. I don't accept  
> this option either as I have far better things to do with my life  
> than waste time in pointless arguments.
> Which leaves me with 3) and is the option I have chosen. Also  
> remember that removal from the list isn't necessarily permanent. If  
> a member agrees to stop whatever it was that I asked them to stop  
> they can come back onto the list. This has happened before.
>
> If you know of other options then please let me know.
>
> I've opted for 3 because this gives me a chance to stop offending  
> behaviour without having to waste time in pointless discussions.
> Which, in my opinion, is what I've been doing for the last couple of  
> weeks and which I don't intend to continue.
> Bo has been asked to stop one particular thing. If he chooses not to  
> do so he will be removed from the list. If anyone else chooses to  
> continue the behaviour Bo has been asked to stop, the same thing  
> happens. Very simple.
>
> In addition to what I've said above, I would also repeat more or  
> less what I said in a previous post:
>
> It would be a good idea to allow newcomers to settle into the forum  
> for a few weeks instead of, figuratively, leaping on them as soon as  
> they are through the forum door and have their coats off and regale  
> them with the MoQ according to Bo. Consider this an administrative  
> request and have the good manners to allow new members some  
> breathing space and settling in time.
> I also think it would be a good idea that if an argument has gone on  
> for a certain length of time or number of posts and is getting  
> absolutely nowhere then I should and will call a time-out to all  
> involved for a cooling off and reflection period. I will try and be  
> polite and reasonable about this and will expect those involved to  
> respect my decision, live with it and not give me a hard time about  
> it or make stupid accusations
>
>
>> None of us think that Bo's SOL thesis is worth a darn and wish he
>> would stop harping on it, but what action are you defending here? I
>> thought it was 1) at first, but maybe it is 2) since you don't think
>> Bo ought to be banned. I thought Horse had done 1) in which case  
>> forum
>> rules are now:
>>
>> #1 You must have read Pirsig's 2 books
>> #2 You may not say that SOL was Pirsig's idea
>>
>> (Are there other rules to add to this list?) But perhaps Horse only
>> intended 2). I normally delete any posts addressed to or from Bo, so
>> I'm not at all clear about what has transpired. Is there a new forum
>> rule or not?
>
> If my position isn't clear now then it is unlikely to ever be so.
> Bo hasn't posted for a while so maybe he's taking time out to  
> consider what I and others have said. I hope so.
> Bo and others are quite welcome to continue to promote the SOL but  
> with regard for what I have asked.
>
> Cheers
>
>
> Horse
>
> -- 
>
> "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring  
> production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid."
> — Frank Zappa
>
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